Senate votes to invoke cloture on health care bill

• Elliot Stabler

  by a vote of 60-40
  
  Final Vote to be held Christmas Eve at around 7:00pm
  
  Thursday Night can't get here soon enough
  
  Glenn,Rush,and Sean,and all reform haters will be crying tomorrow...I love it
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  While the Senate bill will get approved, it is so different from the House bill that the final bill debate and final bill may not happen. Hosue members are ticked, Senate moderates say they will not vote for any measures that are in the House bill.
  
  This thing is not over, but in the end, next month, something very watered down, like the Senate bill will pass.
• fish82

  

  Elliot Stabler wrote: by a vote of 60-40
  
  Final Vote to be held Christmas Eve at around 7:00pm
  
  Thursday Night can't get here soon enough
  
  Glenn,Rush,and Sean,and all reform haters will be crying tomorrow...I love it

  Are you referring to 65% of the country then?
• derek bomar

  

  Elliot, dude, the Senate Bill sucks...and I'm a left-leaning guy
• cbus4life

  This bill sucks. Scrap it.
• believer

  

  ^^^The Senate bill does suck and the House bill sucks exponentially.
  
  The whole thing needs scrapped but I agree with Ptown; a watered down bill will get passed in January.
  
  Even so, this will be exposed eventually as the largest Chicago-style political scheme and sham ever to be rammed down the throats of a blind and naive American public.
  
  Change we can believe in my ass.
• derek bomar

  

  Watching Morning Joe this morning Joe basically said there were 3 things right now 80% of congressman and senators would support without a fight:
  
  1) end the anti-trust exemption for the health insurance industry
  2) tort reform (I'm not sold on this, but not really that opposed to it)
  3) allow people to buy across state lines
  
  these would be a slam-dunk and would actually bring down costs...wtf is going on? Do I think a public option would be beneficial also? Yea...do I need one? No, if you make the reforms mentioned above I think we all win. The winners currently aren't us but the insurance industry because they just got 30 million new customers. This.Fucking.Blows.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  I'm still not understanding why or how the senate can propose and then pass a bill (originating from the senate) that is based on taxes?
  Can anybody fill me in here?
  

  Bills may be introduced in either House of Congress. However, the Constitution provides that "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives." As a result, the Senate does not have the power to initiate bills imposing taxes.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate
  

  In accordance with the Constitution, the Senate cannot originate revenue measures. By tradition, the House also originates general appropriation bills. If the Senate does originate a revenue measure either as a Senate bill or an amendment to a non-revenue House bill, it can be returned to the Senate by a vote of the House as an infringement of the constitutional prerogative of the House.

  http://thomas.loc.gov/home/lawsmade.bysec/originating.html
  
  So seeing as how the government will have to TAX people in order to generate REVENUE to pay for a/any health insurance bill, how can it come from the senate, when clearly the senate is not allowed by the Constitution to do this?
  
  Is this something to be ignored?
  Or is it the natural flow of things?
• derek bomar

  

  I think teh loophole would be that this technically originated in the House since they passed their version first...but I could be wrong
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Good point, DB. That may be the case.
  
  It's just that I've never seen anybody on the news/paper talking about it, and I found it curious.
  I don't know.
• wizecracker

  derek bomar wrote: Watching Morning Joe this morning Joe basically said there were 3 things right now 80% of congressman and senators would support without a fight:
  
  1) end the anti-trust exemption for the health insurance industry
  2) tort reform (I'm not sold on this, but not really that opposed to it)
  3) allow people to buy across state lines
  
  these would be a slam-dunk and would actually bring down costs...wtf is going on? Do I think a public option would be beneficial also? Yea...do I need one? No, if you make the reforms mentioned above I think we all win. The winners currently aren't us but the insurance industry because they just got 30 million new customers. This.Fucking.Blows.

  For once I think I actually agree with you...minus the need for a public option. This bill is garbage.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  derek bomar wrote: Watching Morning Joe this morning Joe basically said there were 3 things right now 80% of congressman and senators would support without a fight:
  
  1) end the anti-trust exemption for the health insurance industry
  2) tort reform (I'm not sold on this, but not really that opposed to it)
  3) allow people to buy across state lines
  
  these would be a slam-dunk and would actually bring down costs...wtf is going on? Do I think a public option would be beneficial also? Yea...do I need one? No, if you make the reforms mentioned above I think we all win. The winners currently aren't us but the insurance industry because they just got 30 million new customers. This.Fucking.Blows.

  Joe's been saying this for a few months now and I agree with it. The public option sounds like a good idea, but given the current political climate, it is impossible.
  
  Whatever happens in the conference committee is going to be interesting, but so watered down, it won't be worth all the time and trouble that we have all went through.
• Mr. 300

  

  They can all kiss my white arse!!!! The special interest money that is now bloating this Senate bill is unheard of. Every senator needs voted out who had his yes vote bought and paid for.
  
  it is coming close to a porkulus bill, round II.
• majorspark

  

  This bill is a joke. The bribes and payoffs occurring in this stinker would land anyone in the private sector behind bars. Wow, the bankrupting of this nation may happen sooner than I thought.
  
  http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/healthcare-taxes-nelson-obama/2009/12/20/id/343984
  

  WINNERS
  
  -Cosmetic surgeons, who fended off a 5 percent tax on their procedures.
  
  -Nebraska, Louisiana, Vermont and Massachusetts. These states are getting more federal help with Medicaid than other states. In the case of Nebraska — represented by Sen. Ben Nelson, who's providing the critical 60th vote for the legislation to pass — the federal government is picking up 100 percent of the tab of a planned expansion of the program, in perpetuity. Vermont and Massachusetts get temporary increases in the federal share of their Medicaid tabs. In Louisiana, moderate Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu negotiated $100 million for 2011 before announcing her support for the legislation.
  
  -Beneficiaries of Medicare Advantage plans — the private managed-care plans within Medicare — in Florida. Hundreds of thousands of them will have their benefits grandfathered in thanks to a provision tailored by Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., that also affects a much smaller number of seniors in a few other states.
  
  -Longshoremen. They were added to the list of workers in high-risk professions who are shielded from the full impact of a proposed new tax on high-value insurance plans. (Electrical linemen were already included, along with policemen, firefighters, emergency first responders and workers in construction, mining, forestry, fishing and certain agriculture jobs.)
  
  -Community health centers. They got $10 billion more in the revised bill, thanks to advocacy by Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt.
  
  -A handful of physician-owned hospitals being built around the country — including one in Bellevue, Neb. — which would be permitted to get referrals from the doctors who own them, avoiding a new ban in the Senate bill that will apply to hospitals built in the future. Without mentioning Nebraska or other states by name, the Senate bill pushes back some legal deadlines by several months, in effect making a few hospitals that are near completion eligible to continue receiving referrals from the doctors who own them. The provision was described by a pair of health industry lobbyists who spoke on condition of anonymity in order to speak freely. Chalk up another win for Nelson.
  
  -AARP, the lobby for elderly people. The new Democratic bill has about $1 billion in extra Medicaid payments to states that provide visiting nurses and other in-home or community services to prevent low-income people from needing to be admitted to hospitals. In House-Senate bargaining, AARP also is expected to win one of their top priorities: a full closing of the so-called "doughnut hole," the gap in Medicare's coverage of prescription drugs.
  
  -Doctors and hospitals in Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah and Wyoming, who will get paid more than providers elsewhere under formulas in the bill.
  
  LOSERS
  
  -Tanning salons, which are getting hit with a 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services, replacing the cosmetic surgery tax.
  
  -Progressives. They had to give up on their long-held dream of a new government-run insurance plan so that Democratic leaders could lock down the necessary votes from moderates.
  
  -People making over $200,000 a year. A proposed 0.5 percent increase in the Medicare payroll tax was bumped up to 0.9 percent in the latest version, putting the tax at 2.35 percent on income over $200,000 a year for individuals, $250,000 for couples.
  
  -Generic drug makers. They fought unsuccessfully to block 12 years of protection that makers of brand-name biotech drugs — expensive pharmaceuticals made from living cells — will get against generic would-be competitors.

• CenterBHSFan

  

  Note to self for future posterity
  
  Dear Self,
  
  In the future, try not to gloat over government interference one day, and then regret it the next.
  
  In the future, try to think of long-term consequences, and not just the warm, feel-good, making a difference effect that I might have on my conscience.
  
  Always try to remember to weigh what could happen along with what might happen.
  
  The old saying "be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it" came about for a reason.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  Center (2009)
• Con_Alma

  This is the true result in asking the government to get involved. Thanks Uncle Sam! It's clean as a whistle and working like a a charm.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  Elliot Stabler wrote: by a vote of 60-40
  
  Final Vote to be held Christmas Eve at around 7:00pm
  
  Thursday Night can't get here soon enough
  
  Glenn,Rush,and Sean,and all reform haters will be crying tomorrow...I love it

  Partisan to the point of not giving a damn whether (1) most people want it or (2) it will actually do more harm than good.
  
  Priceless.
• Elliot Stabler

  Damn,Im glad I decided to get on here
  
  What liberals need to realize is that we were never going to get exactly what we want,there were going to have to be concessions made to get reform passed
• derek bomar

  

  Elliot Stabler wrote: Damn,Im glad I decided to get on here
  
  What liberals need to realize is that we were never going to get exactly what we want,there were going to have to be concessions made to get reform passed

  dude...this isn't reform... it really isn't. All this is is a gift to the insurance industry with very little in return. They get 30mil new customers and we get to not be dropped if we have a pre-existing condition. Sound like a good deal? Doesn't to me.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  I know that "change we can believe in!!!!!!!1111!!!" is going to happen any moment! lol
• ross ford81

  The whole liberal goal is to get this and keep moving toward Universal Health Care // Third Party Payer // Total Government Control. This is a terrible bill for liberals but there is long-term thinking going on. Creeping Socialism...or better yet, Creepy Socialism eventually is the goal.
• HitsRus

  

  If there is one good thing that might come of this fiasco, it is that a whole new generation of people get first hand knowledge of why big government doesn't work, and why government intrusion will NOT solve problems.
• derek bomar

  

  Government intervention could work, it just won't in this case because this bill fucking sucks. Like I said, if the gov't got rid of the interstate ban and the anti-trust exemption, this thing would look pretty good. For the life of me I don't know why those aren't in there, because they'd obviously work and obviously pass (at least make this harder to vote against).
• CenterBHSFan

  

  DB,
  
  I think the biggest reason that we're not seeing what you are suggesting relies on one thing, and one thing only.
  
  The government has absolutely NO common sense.
  Period.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  CenterBHSFan wrote: The government has absolutely NO common sense.
  Period.

  Does that apply to foreign policy and the DoD as well?