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U.S. National debt exceeds legal limit.

  • majorspark
    The latest calculations show the National Debt approved by Congress last February exceeding the debt ceiling. In other words Congress is breaking the law. The debt limit was set at $12.104 trillion. The latest posting by the Treasury shows the debt to be $12.135 trillion. But don't worry this will not halt federal spending anytime soon.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/12/16/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5987341.shtml
    A senior Treasury official told CBS News that the department has some "extraordinary accounting tools" it can use to give the government breathing room in the range of $150-billion when the Debt exceeds the Debt Ceiling.

    Were it not for those "tools," the U.S. Government would not have the statutory authority to borrow any more money. It might block issuance of Social Security checks and require a shutdown of some parts of the federal government.

    Pending in Congress is a measure to increase the Debt Limit by $290 billion, which amounts to six more weeks of routine borrowing for the federal government. (The House just passed the increase, though the Senate has yet to act. It is expected to approve the measure.)
    I wish I had access to these "extraordinary accounting tools" in my business. I wonder how many US businessmen are rotting in federal prison for using some of those "extraordinary accounting tools?"

    Federal spending is now going beyond irresponsibility and now bordering on criminal. What is it going to take to get people to understand what is going on and demand accountability? We need to decide what our priorities are and take an ax federal budget.

    I hate tax increases but at least it gets peoples attention. Instead the federal government disguises the cost of their out of control spending by indirect taxation of the lower/middle economic classes. Using regulatory fees, corporate taxes etc. that are passed on to the consumer, and uncontrolled printing of cash slowly eating away at the value of the dollar.

    There is going to be hell to pay when the coming economic shit storm hits. The thing is many of the politicians who caused it and refuse to do anything about it will be dead or drueling in their wheelchairs when payment comes due.
  • ernest_t_bass
    ccrunner609 wrote: I think I know what 2012 is for.
    What?
  • derek bomar
    here's a list of this decades changes to the ceiling in terms of billions...

    111 Stat. 648 Increased the debt limit to 5,950.0
    June 28, 2002
    116 Stat. 734 Increased the debt limit to 6,400.0
    May 27, 2003
    117 Stat. 710 Increased the debt limit to 7,384.0
    November 19, 2004
    118 Stat. 2337 Increased the debt limit to 8,184.0
    March 20, 2006
    120 Stat. 289 Increased the debt limit to 8,965.0
    September 29, 2007
    121 Stat. 988 Increased the debt limit to 9,815.0
    July 30, 2008
    122 Stat. 2908 Increased the debt limit to 10,615.0
    October 3, 2008
    122 Stat. 3790 Increased the debt limit to 11,315.0
    February 17, 2009
    123 Stat. 366 Increased the debt limit to 12,104.0


    one guy (W.) and one party (Reps) were in charge for most of the majority of the 80% (roughly) increase to the ceiling we saw from 2002-2008. I am sure CC and the like were just as outraged then as they are now.
  • queencitybuckeye
    So your level-set is that if Barry isn't any worse than Dub, he's doing OK?
  • derek bomar
    queencitybuckeye wrote: So your level-set is that if Barry isn't any worse than Dub, he's doing OK?
    well, in order to do "as bad" he'd have to raise the ceiling to almost 20 trill to have as much of an impact in terms of percentage increase to the ceiling as Dubs presidency had...not saying I want it raised that high, and not saying I want it raised at all. I don't want it raised, I want it lowered. I just want to make sure everyone's aware that this isn't only B.O.'s doing like most want to believe
  • Glory Days
    I am just going off the top of my head, but weren't the democrats in control of congress during this time? and congress controls the budget dont they?

    120 Stat. 289 Increased the debt limit to 8,965.0
    September 29, 2007
    121 Stat. 988 Increased the debt limit to 9,815.0
    July 30, 2008
    122 Stat. 2908 Increased the debt limit to 10,615.0
    October 3, 2008
    122 Stat. 3790 Increased the debt limit to 11,315.0
    February 17, 2009
    123 Stat. 366 Increased the debt limit to 12,104.0
  • derek bomar
    well you just conveniently left off the 2002 #...which was 50% lower than the 2007 #...and I did state the majority of time controlled by Republicans, which would imply that not 100% of it was there fault...didn't know I'd have to spell it out for you.
  • majorspark
    derek bomar wrote:
    queencitybuckeye wrote: So your level-set is that if Barry isn't any worse than Dub, he's doing OK?
    well, in order to do "as bad" he'd have to raise the ceiling to almost 20 trill to have as much of an impact in terms of percentage increase to the ceiling as Dubs presidency had...not saying I want it raised that high, and not saying I want it raised at all. I don't want it raised, I want it lowered. I just want to make sure everyone's aware that this isn't only B.O.'s doing like most want to believe
    Most on here realize our debt is decades in the making spanning a long line of politicians. Obama is captian of the ship now and his orders are full steam ahead. His crew (congress) is fueling the ship with our cash. The passengers (the American people) get to enjoy the shipwreck. Get your lifeboat ready.

    As for 20 trillion. It is no longer unheard of that the debt will reach that milestone.
    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/national_debt_hits_12_trillion_will_double_by_2019/
    The National Debt has increased about $1.6 trillion on Mr. Obama’s watch, though less than $4.9 trillion run up during the presidency of George W. Bush.

    But the White House budget review issued in August projects that by the end of the current fiscal year on Sept 30th, the National Debt could top $14 trillion. It gets worse. The same document projects that by the end of the decade, the National Debt will hit $24.5 trillion — exceeding the Gross Domestic Product projected for 2019 of $22.8 trillion.
  • QuakerOats
    And Hillary is in Denmark espousing the gifting of $100 billion from countries such as ours so that marxist tyrants can continue to develop and we can pay for their pollution issues.

    Are the people now running this nation absolutely and completely INSANE?

    They ought to be run out of their jobs today.
  • derek bomar
    How are the projections made? What increases to the deficit do they foresee coming that are purely Obama's doing, and not just more interest on already borrowed money?
  • derek bomar
    QuakerOats wrote: And Hillary is in Denmark espousing the gifting of $100 billion from countries such as ours so that marxist tyrants can continue to develop and we can pay for their pollution issues.

    Are the people now running this nation absolutely and completely INSANE?

    They ought to be run out of their jobs today.
    can you stop it with the marxist bull shit?
  • majorspark
    Oh and something else that will do wonders for helping us reach new debt milestones...

    Hillary Clinton is out promising 10's of billions of our dollars to two-bit dictators to in the name of unproven man made global warming. What a joke.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/17/clinton-ready-join-b-climate-aid-fund/
  • majorspark
    Looks like Quaker beat me to it.
  • majorspark
    derek bomar wrote: How are the projections made? What increases to the deficit do they foresee coming that are purely Obama's doing, and not just more interest on already borrowed money?
    Remember the federal government has access to "extraordinary accounting tools".
  • derek bomar
    majorspark wrote:
    derek bomar wrote: How are the projections made? What increases to the deficit do they foresee coming that are purely Obama's doing, and not just more interest on already borrowed money?
    Remember the federal government has access to "extraordinary accounting tools".
    well that didn't answer my question
  • Glory Days
    derek bomar wrote: well you just conveniently left off the 2002 #...which was 50% lower than the 2007 #...and I did state the majority of time controlled by Republicans, which would imply that not 100% of it was there fault...didn't know I'd have to spell it out for you.
    how is 4 out of 8 years the majority of the time? sounds more like equal amount of times.
  • derek bomar
    Glory Days wrote:
    derek bomar wrote: well you just conveniently left off the 2002 #...which was 50% lower than the 2007 #...and I did state the majority of time controlled by Republicans, which would imply that not 100% of it was there fault...didn't know I'd have to spell it out for you.
    how is 4 out of 8 years the majority of the time? sounds more like equal amount of times.
    nvm

    fun with #'s...
    here goes: the d's increased it (under bush) 29.7% while the R's under Bush increased it 37.5%
  • Footwedge
    Glory Days wrote:
    derek bomar wrote: well you just conveniently left off the 2002 #...which was 50% lower than the 2007 #...and I did state the majority of time controlled by Republicans, which would imply that not 100% of it was there fault...didn't know I'd have to spell it out for you.
    how is 4 out of 8 years the majority of the time? sounds more like equal amount of times.
    First 2 years iof Bush 43...the House and Senate were split. 2002 through 2006..both controlled by GOP Last 2 years, both controlled by dems with a GOP holding office and veto power.

    As Sparky alluded to above...to blame one party over another is lunacy in itself.

    Since Reagan was in power the national debt went up at a rate 3 to 2 over the yearly rate of Dems as president. This has been linked and proven over and over again.

    Glory, you are simply misinformed if you think the GOP is better at keeping the public debt growth in order.

    They are the bigger offenders. /Case.
  • Glory Days
    thats awesome, they still increased it and show no signs of stopping. come back in a few years and compare the same amount of time that obama and the democrats held office to the republicans and bush held office then your comparison will make sense.
    Footwedge wrote: Glory, you are simply misinformed if you think the GOP is better at keeping the public debt growth in order.

    They are the bigger offenders. /Case.
    never said they were better.
  • 0311sdp
    derek bomar wrote: here's a list of this decades changes to the ceiling in terms of billions...

    111 Stat. 648 Increased the debt limit to 5,950.0
    June 28, 2002
    116 Stat. 734 Increased the debt limit to 6,400.0
    May 27, 2003
    117 Stat. 710 Increased the debt limit to 7,384.0
    November 19, 2004
    118 Stat. 2337 Increased the debt limit to 8,184.0
    March 20, 2006
    120 Stat. 289 Increased the debt limit to 8,965.0
    September 29, 2007
    121 Stat. 988 Increased the debt limit to 9,815.0
    July 30, 2008
    122 Stat. 2908 Increased the debt limit to 10,615.0
    October 3, 2008
    122 Stat. 3790 Increased the debt limit to 11,315.0
    February 17, 2009
    123 Stat. 366 Increased the debt limit to 12,104.0


    one guy (W.) and one party (Reps) were in charge for most of the majority of the 80% (roughly) increase to the ceiling we saw from 2002-2008. I am sure CC and the like were just as outraged then as they are now.
    Congress controls spending, Dems controlled both Houses during those years. (but there is plenty of blame for both parties)
  • derek bomar
    0311sdp wrote:
    derek bomar wrote: here's a list of this decades changes to the ceiling in terms of billions...

    111 Stat. 648 Increased the debt limit to 5,950.0
    June 28, 2002
    116 Stat. 734 Increased the debt limit to 6,400.0
    May 27, 2003
    117 Stat. 710 Increased the debt limit to 7,384.0
    November 19, 2004
    118 Stat. 2337 Increased the debt limit to 8,184.0
    March 20, 2006
    120 Stat. 289 Increased the debt limit to 8,965.0
    September 29, 2007
    121 Stat. 988 Increased the debt limit to 9,815.0
    July 30, 2008
    122 Stat. 2908 Increased the debt limit to 10,615.0
    October 3, 2008
    122 Stat. 3790 Increased the debt limit to 11,315.0
    February 17, 2009
    123 Stat. 366 Increased the debt limit to 12,104.0


    one guy (W.) and one party (Reps) were in charge for most of the majority of the 80% (roughly) increase to the ceiling we saw from 2002-2008. I am sure CC and the like were just as outraged then as they are now.
    Congress controls spending, Dems controlled both Houses during those years. (but there is plenty of blame for both parties)
    umm...no they didn't
  • derek bomar
    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

    this link pretty much explains that the recession and the Bush tax cuts are mostly responsible for our current and future budget deficits...Barry's plans don't amount to much in future years, but the tax cuts are HUGE
  • 0311sdp
    derek bomar wrote:
    0311sdp wrote:
    derek bomar wrote: here's a list of this decades changes to the ceiling in terms of billions...

    111 Stat. 648 Increased the debt limit to 5,950.0
    June 28, 2002
    116 Stat. 734 Increased the debt limit to 6,400.0
    May 27, 2003
    117 Stat. 710 Increased the debt limit to 7,384.0
    November 19, 2004
    118 Stat. 2337 Increased the debt limit to 8,184.0
    March 20, 2006
    120 Stat. 289 Increased the debt limit to 8,965.0
    September 29, 2007
    121 Stat. 988 Increased the debt limit to 9,815.0
    July 30, 2008
    122 Stat. 2908 Increased the debt limit to 10,615.0
    October 3, 2008
    122 Stat. 3790 Increased the debt limit to 11,315.0
    February 17, 2009
    123 Stat. 366 Increased the debt limit to 12,104.0


    one guy (W.) and one party (Reps) were in charge for most of the majority of the 80% (roughly) increase to the ceiling we saw from 2002-2008. I am sure CC and the like were just as outraged then as they are now.
    Congress controls spending, Dems controlled both Houses during those years. (but there is plenty of blame for both parties)


    umm...no they didn't
    You are correct, it was 2006 when the Dems gained control of both houses and things have really improved since then.
  • derek bomar
    0311sdp wrote:
    derek bomar wrote:
    0311sdp wrote:
    derek bomar wrote: here's a list of this decades changes to the ceiling in terms of billions...

    111 Stat. 648 Increased the debt limit to 5,950.0
    June 28, 2002
    116 Stat. 734 Increased the debt limit to 6,400.0
    May 27, 2003
    117 Stat. 710 Increased the debt limit to 7,384.0
    November 19, 2004
    118 Stat. 2337 Increased the debt limit to 8,184.0
    March 20, 2006
    120 Stat. 289 Increased the debt limit to 8,965.0
    September 29, 2007
    121 Stat. 988 Increased the debt limit to 9,815.0
    July 30, 2008
    122 Stat. 2908 Increased the debt limit to 10,615.0
    October 3, 2008
    122 Stat. 3790 Increased the debt limit to 11,315.0
    February 17, 2009
    123 Stat. 366 Increased the debt limit to 12,104.0


    one guy (W.) and one party (Reps) were in charge for most of the majority of the 80% (roughly) increase to the ceiling we saw from 2002-2008. I am sure CC and the like were just as outraged then as they are now.
    Congress controls spending, Dems controlled both Houses during those years. (but there is plenty of blame for both parties)


    umm...no they didn't
    You are correct, it was 2006 when the Dems gained control of both houses and things have really improved since then.
    well in terms of raising the debt ceiling as a % of previous ceilings it hasn't been increased as much as it had under republicans...just sayin
  • 0311sdp
    derek bomar wrote:
    0311sdp wrote:
    derek bomar wrote:
    0311sdp wrote:
    derek bomar wrote: here's a list of this decades changes to the ceiling in terms of billions...

    111 Stat. 648 Increased the debt limit to 5,950.0
    June 28, 2002
    116 Stat. 734 Increased the debt limit to 6,400.0
    May 27, 2003
    117 Stat. 710 Increased the debt limit to 7,384.0
    November 19, 2004
    118 Stat. 2337 Increased the debt limit to 8,184.0
    March 20, 2006
    120 Stat. 289 Increased the debt limit to 8,965.0
    September 29, 2007
    121 Stat. 988 Increased the debt limit to 9,815.0
    July 30, 2008
    122 Stat. 2908 Increased the debt limit to 10,615.0
    October 3, 2008
    122 Stat. 3790 Increased the debt limit to 11,315.0
    February 17, 2009
    123 Stat. 366 Increased the debt limit to 12,104.0


    one guy (W.) and one party (Reps) were in charge for most of the majority of the 80% (roughly) increase to the ceiling we saw from 2002-2008. I am sure CC and the like were just as outraged then as they are now.
    Congress controls spending, Dems controlled both Houses during those years. (but there is plenty of blame for both parties)


    umm...no they didn't
    You are correct, it was 2006 when the Dems gained control of both houses and things have really improved since then.
    well in terms of raising the debt ceiling as a % of previous ceilings it hasn't been increased as much as it had under republicans...just sayin
    We could argue who is the worst forever, I think that we can agree that both parties have done a terrible job in the last 10 years. We need a good 3rd party, but as in 1992 with Perot people just seem to not be willing to vote outside the Democrat or Republican parties. I can say that I voted for Perot both in 1992 and in 1996 and can't help but believe that at least financially the US would have been better off than it is now had he won.