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Do we really need a Democratic and Republican party?

  • isadore
    gut;1133099 wrote:If they're innocent, absolutely. If not, that's another issue entirely.
    lol
  • password
    2kool4skool;1132769 wrote: Most of the country treats politics like a team sport, rooting for their side and believing the opposition are "the bad guys" despite not actually knowing anything about the issues.
    This is exactly what I am talking about. You have people that would vote for a candidate even if he told them that when he gets elected, everyone will have a yearly salary of $10,000 and must work 60 hrs a week regardless of their job or be sent to prison. I know that is not a great example but there would still be people that would vote for that candidate because he is of the same party affiliation as them, no matter how bad it would effect them.
  • gut
    isadore;1133140 wrote:lol
    What's so funny? Black,white,yellow, red -I don't know anyone that's ever been busted for a crime they didn't commit...and none of them are in the 1%. Or, to be more accurate, I don't know people who commit crimes nor people who've been arrested for crimes they didn't commit.

    It's kind of like Travon Martin in that white people or the 1% are supposed to feel some sort of guilt or inequity because of an exception here and there. The whole victim mentality is as repulsive as it is self-fulfilling.
  • isadore
    gut;1133090 wrote:Bull****. They get a FREE defense from a lawyer who's education was paid for by the rich taxpayers of America. Here's a reality check for you- 99.9% of truly innocent people never even get arrested. 99.9% of those who do likely don't even need a lawyer to get off. Actual innocent people going to jail each year can probably be counted on your fingers and toes. Most of it is plea bargained, anyway. And, yeah, the public lawyer gets you some ****ty deals but ultimately you're guilty and the deal is within the sentencing standards.

    Seeing someone like OJ skate is not proof of inadequate defense for the poor but rather a flawed legal system in which enough resources is able to parade enough experts to create reasonable doubt in a rather ignorant jury. That is not some standard or ideal to advocate for everyone but rather something that should be fixed.
    1. Rich people are not the only people who pay taxes or even the majority of taxes.
    2. Poor People get legal defense from lawyers whose training was paid for completely by rich people’s taxes. Do you have a source for this statement? I think it is incorrect.
    3. The actual number of innocent people going to jail each year would be 20 or less. Do you have a source for this statement? I think it is much higher than that.
    4. Poor people deserve good competent representation in both criminal and CIVIL cases.
    5. You support a system that allows rich people to “parade experts to create reasonable doubt,” so they can avoid punishment for their crimes while the poor go to jail.
  • isadore
    gut;1133164 wrote:What's so funny? Black,white,yellow, red -I don't know anyone that's ever been busted for a crime they didn't commit...and none of them are in the 1%. Or, to be more accurate, I don't know people who commit crimes nor people who've been arrested for crimes they didn't commit.

    It's kind of like Travon Martin in that white people or the 1% are supposed to feel some sort of guilt or inequity because of an exception here and there. The whole victim mentality is as repulsive as it is self-fulfilling.
    You endorse a system that allows the rich to escape criminal and civil responsibility but sentences some completely innocent people to punishment.
  • gut
    isadore;1133168 wrote:1. Rich people are not the only people who pay taxes or even the majority of taxes.
    LMFAO at that ignorant bullshit
    2. Poor People get legal defense from lawyers whose training was paid for completely by rich people’s taxes. Do you have a source for this statement? I think it is incorrect.
    Subsidized student loans. See above. No source needed.
    3. The actual number of innocent people going to jail eachyear would be 20 or less. Do you have a source for this statement? I think it is much higher than that.
    Fair enough. Provide statistics proving me wrong.
    4. Poor people deserve good competent representation in both criminal and CIVIL cases.
    Agreed. Provide statistics proving they don't. Ever hear of contigency?
    5. You support a system that allows rich people to “parade experts to create reasonable doubt,” so they can avoid punishment for their crimes while the poor go to jail.
    No I don't. I never said that. I merely pointed out the extremely ignorant proposition implied by you that "poor" people deserve benefit of the same flaw in the legal system. That's just retarded.
  • Al Bundy
    isadore;1133168 wrote: Rich people are not the only people who pay taxes or even the majority of taxes.
    I am not sure where you are separating rich and poor, but only about half of the people in the country pay income tax.
    isadore;1133168 wrote: Poor people deserve good competent representation in both criminal and CIVIL cases.
    Poor people get a free defense in criminal cases, and they get representation in civil cases because the lawyers get a percent of the settlement.
  • fan_from_texas
    isadore;1133034 wrote:right a poor person has the same chance in court as one of the 1%

    Are you saying the poor people on juries are biased against poor defendants? Seems like a good reason to blame the rich.
  • gut
    Al Bundy;1133190 wrote:I am not sure where you are separating rich and poor...
    The beauty of the gubmit tit is that the sucklings are easily convinced of the need for said tit. Woah, don't blame the gubmit for foul milk...blame the rich for not giving the gubmit enough $$$ to buy you better milk.
  • isadore
    gut;1133182 wrote:LMFAO at that ignorant bull****


    Subsidized student loans. See above. No source needed.


    Fair enough. Provide statistics proving me wrong.


    Agreed. Provide statistics proving they don't. Ever hear of contigency?


    No I don't. I never said that. I merely pointed out the extremely ignorant proposition implied by you that "poor" people deserve benefit of the same flaw in the legal system. That's just retarded.
    The taxes rich are not only people supplying money to law students that is false. And loans are not free. Take my word for it they are to be repaid. That is not free.
    A review of Kentucky’s death penalty procedures reveals that 60 percent of the people on death row since 1976 have had their convictions overturned “due to serious constitutional error or misconduct that occurred at trial.”

    At least 10 of the 78 people on death row since 1976 were represented by attorneys who were later disbarred.


    http://richmondregister.com/localnews/x2114751715/Review-60-percent-of-state-s-death-penalty-convictions-overturned
    This is the kind of quality representation to poor get in court.
    Contingency of course does no good in criminal cases and is limiting in civil cases.
    And you continue to argue for a legal system that rewards the rich with a license to cheat, rob and kill.
    That is something to protest/
    The exact opposite of the your view that
    gut wrote: Only the rich should be responsible and accountable for their actions.
  • isadore
    fan_from_texas;1133196 wrote:Are you saying the poor people on juries are biased against poor defendants? Seems like a good reason to blame the rich.
    I am sure that the jury experts rich can afford, will make sure that bias never works against them.
  • isadore
    Al Bundy;1133190 wrote:I am not sure where you are separating rich and poor, but only about half of the people in the country pay income tax. Poor people get a free defense in criminal cases, and they get representation in civil cases because the lawyers get a percent of the settlement.
    that is income tax, which is not our only tax and i think i am right to say it is slightly more than 50% of Americans who pay income tax. And our discussion began with the 1% vs the 99%. The 1% pay far less than 1/2 our total income tax.
  • isadore
    Al Bundy;1133190 wrote:I am not sure where you are separating rich and poor, but only about half of the people in the country pay income tax. Poor people get a free defense in criminal cases, and they get representation in civil cases because the lawyers get a percent of the settlement.
    See above for some of the quality representation they get in criminal trials.
    They get representation in civil cases where lawyers can see a good chance of a pay day. That is not true representation
  • Al Bundy
    isadore;1133343 wrote:that is income tax, which is not our only tax and i think i am right to say it is slightly more than 50% of Americans who pay income tax. And our discussion began with the 1% vs the 99%. The 1% pay far less than 1/2 our total income tax.
    so you think that 1% of the population should pay 50% of the taxes?
  • believer
    Al Bundy;1133390 wrote:so you think that 1% of the population should pay 50% of the taxes?
    Yes because the eeeeevil rich should pay their fair share. Redistribution of wealth is the way to economic nirvana.
  • fan_from_texas
    isadore;1133335 wrote:I am sure that the jury experts rich can afford, will make sure that bias never works against them.

    I don't know how it works where you are, but in my practice, public interest intervenors have access to the same quality of experts as everyone else, paid for through state utility revenues.
  • pmoney25
    People believe they actually have a choice when in reality they are force fed two candidates who pander to their "core beliefs" but in all reality are just looking for different ways to get the same outcome. To control you and to not actually get anything done. LIke George Carlin used to say, you only have the illusion of choice.

    If you actually had a choice, it wouldn't be so difficult for a third party candidate to actually run and win.


    The sad thing is a large amount of people are going to vote Republican because they think Obama is a Muslim, non citizen communist and people are going to vote democrat because they think Republicans want to throw old people and babies out on the streets to fend for themselves.

    I refuse to accept those two options.
  • isadore
    Al Bundy;1133390 wrote:so you think that 1% of the population should pay 50% of the taxes?
    While the real incomes of most American have stagnated or shank during the Reagan era, that 1% income and wealth have skyrocketed. Upper class tax cuts have played a major role in bringing about this about.
  • believer
    fan_from_texas;1133423 wrote:I don't know how it works where you are, but in my practice, public interest intervenors have access to the same quality of experts as everyone else, paid for through state utility revenues.
    Well, we don't want to let facts and common sense cloud the poor downtrodden masses hyperbole now do we?
  • isadore
    fan_from_texas;1133423 wrote:I don't know how it works where you are, but in my practice, public interest intervenors have access to the same quality of experts as everyone else, paid for through state utility revenues.
    is that true throughout the criminal and civil system in your state. Or just in a specific area where the government has intervened to make sure there is just.
  • bigdaddy2003
    Isadore is like a walking episode of Law and Order SVU. All rich people are scum no matter what and everyone is a victim no matter what.
  • fan_from_texas
    isadore;1133482 wrote:is that true throughout the criminal and civil system in your state. Or just in a specific area where the government has intervened to make sure there is just.

    I've participated in utility proceedings in a half dozen states, and it's true in all of them. I can't speak to things outside my expertise.
  • majorspark
    2kool4skool;1132769 wrote:67% of the country can't name one supreme court justice
    56% can't name a single case ever heard by the supreme court
    41% think Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11
    90% can't identify Afghanistan on a world map
    37% can't identify the U.S.A. on a world map
    Typically just over 50% of Americans of voting age actually vote in federal elections during a presidental year, and just over a third in mid term elections. I am betting the farm the numbers in your post are comprised mostly of the large numbers of non-voting Americans.
  • gut
    isadore;1133314 wrote:The taxes rich are not only people supplying money to law students that is false. And loans are not free. Take my word for it they are to be repaid. That is not free.
    Subsidized =/= free. Learn what the arguments are before trying to throw your hat in the ring.
    A review of Kentucky’s death penalty procedures reveals that 60 percent of the people on death row since 1976 have had their convictions overturned “due to serious constitutional error or misconduct that occurred at trial.”
    At least 10 of the 78 people on death row since 1976 were represented by attorneys who were later disbarred.
    10 people over 30+ years? Is that seriously the argument you are making? Yes, that sucks. You can't bankrupt the whole fucking system for 10 people. Life isn't fair. Learn to deal with it instead of looking for excuses and handouts.

    And, again, I've never argued for a legal system that "rewards" the rich. Nice strawman. That's no justification for what you're arguing, though at this point I'm not sure what you're arguing and am fairly certain you don't, either.
  • isadore
    fan_from_texas;1133513 wrote:I've participated in utility proceedings in a half dozen states, and it's true in all of them. I can't speak to things outside my expertise.
    My argument was that the government should take an active role in insuring
    "the 99% should enjoy the same protections as the 1% and believe in government of the people, by the people and for the people."