HHS mandate on Catholic and other religious institutions

• sleeper

  

  jmog;1077286 wrote:Oh I am wrong plenty of times, just not here.
  
  You have yet to still give a fact as to why they should NOT be non-profit.

  Why do I have to give a fact? It is my opinion, nothing more nothing less. It's worth just as much as your opinion that they should be considered non-profit.
  
  Churches are a business. They deserve to be taxed like one.
• fish82

  

  sleeper;1077271 wrote:I'm amazed then. You must be a human prodigy.

  Indeed. I admit it's a burden sometimes, but fortunately when it comes to The Fish, with greatness comes humility....along with a high degree of charm and sex appeal, but that's for a different thread.
  

  sleeper;1077271 wrote:It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for your brain to comprehend and analyze every single statement and every possibility before making a statement. Even saying "Obama will lose the general election' has many different scenarios that could make that untrue/ different. That is generalizing, you are taking the most likely scenario and painting it is fact/opinion.

  Which is probably why I don't issue idiotic statements like "Obama will lose the general election," or "Churches are corporations who parade as religious institutions to increase their wealth."
  

  sleeper;1077271 wrote:You've been ruined, how does it feel?

  The same as the last time you claimed to have ruined me...amusing, with a dash of pity.
• sleeper

  

  When the only content you add to a discussion is pointing out that me, a human, is generalizing, you might as well not even post at all. That's what humans do, they generalize, that is how the world works. Welcome to reality.
• fish82

  

  Bigdogg;1077288 wrote:Catholic Health Partners is one of the largest health care systems in Ohio and Kentucky. It is safe to say that they would not survive without Medicaid and Medicare. You collect uncle Sams money, you dance to their song.
  
  http://www.health-partners.org/Reports/Recent Fiscal Year Reports/AFile_001_Audited_Financial_Statements.pdf

  1. "Uncle Sam's money?" Really?
  
  B. The idea that "It's safe to say they wouldn't survive without Medicare/Medicaid" is a fairly grandiose supposition on your part. Lots of companies restructure and run on a good bit less than $2.5 billion/year.
  
  The Catholic health organizations could easily band together and tell Bam to go pound salt, and find another place to treat the patients. The line of medical providers who would just jump at the chance to treat those profitable Medicare/Medicare patients is probably out the door.
• jmog

  sleeper;1077289 wrote:Why do I have to give a fact? It is my opinion, nothing more nothing less. It's worth just as much as your opinion that they should be considered non-profit.
  
  Churches are a business. They deserve to be taxed like one.

  I guess you were not good at any class at OSU that involved logic, reasoning, and debate.
  
  A factless based opinion typically shows biasedness and not sound logical reasoning behind an opinion.
  
  I have already given one fact. The law states that religious organizations can apply for non-profit status just like a lot of other organizations. That is a fact.
  
  If you truly believe churches are a business please share some of the profit margins or P/E ratios of local churches please, I would love to hear it.
• sleeper

  

  jmog;1077321 wrote:I guess you were not good at any class at OSU that involved logic, reasoning, and debate.
  
  A factless based opinion typically shows biasedness and not sound logical reasoning behind an opinion.
  
  I have already given one fact. The law states that religious organizations can apply for non-profit status just like a lot of other organizations. That is a fact.
  
  If you truly believe churches are a business please share some of the profit margins or P/E ratios of local churches please, I would love to hear it.

  So, can we apply your logic and reasoning to other laws in existence? For example, since abortion is legal, your opinion that it should not be is invalid because the law(facts) are on my side? LOL
  
  #sleeperwins
  
  I would love to post their financials, is it public data? I really have no idea, but it sure as shit should be.
• Bigdogg

  fish82;1077315 wrote:1. "Uncle Sam's money?" Really?
  
  B. The idea that "It's safe to say they wouldn't survive without Medicare/Medicaid" is a fairly grandiose supposition on your part. Lots of companies restructure and run on a good bit less than $2.5 billion/year.
  
  The Catholic health organizations could easily band together and tell Bam to go pound salt, and find another place to treat the patients. The line of medical providers who would just jump at the chance to treat those profitable Medicare/Medicare patients is probably out the door.

  Sorry, like most other topics you are way out of your league on this one. If they did not have to have to take Medicare and Medicare, they would not. You are having a rough day. First Sleeper beats up on you now you claim to know the Mercy hospital system. Stick with something you know like Ballet.:laugh:
  
  There is a long list of hospitals that would love Catholic Health to tell Bam to stick it!
• fish82

  

  Bigdogg;1077330 wrote:Sorry, like most other topics you are way out of your league on this one. If they did not have to have to take Medicare and Medicare, they would not. You are having a rough day. First Sleeper beats up on you now you claim to know the Mercy hospital system. Stick with something you know like Ballet.:laugh:
  
  There is a long list of hospitals that would love Catholic Health to tell Bam to stick it!

  My day is fine, thanks.
  
  Please provide some backup for your "if they didn't have to take them, they would not" line.
  
  If you're gonna ride someone's coattails to try and take me on, I'd suggest a different horse. That said, you do what you think is best. :laugh:
• I Wear Pants

  fish82;1077315 wrote:1. "Uncle Sam's money?" Really?
  
  B. The idea that "It's safe to say they wouldn't survive without Medicare/Medicaid" is a fairly grandiose supposition on your part. Lots of companies restructure and run on a good bit less than $2.5 billion/year.
  
  The Catholic health organizations could easily band together and tell Bam to go pound salt, and find another place to treat the patients. The line of medical providers who would just jump at the chance to treat those profitable Medicare/Medicare patients is probably out the door.

  Ok, then why don't they quit fucking whining and do just that?
• I Wear Pants

  Con_Alma;1077097 wrote:A friend of mine is an OBGYN and he is Catholic. He has a private practice and he will not prescribe any birth control to his patients.

  He is a bad person and doctor then.
• I Wear Pants

  jmog;1077241 wrote:Give any facts as to why they "should not be tax exempt", not your opinion.
  
  I will give one fact, the law, end of discussion. The law states that any religious institution is exempt from taxes on donations just like all non-profit orgs.
  
  Your only reason is that you believe them to be profit bearing corporations, which they are not.
  
  I have actually sat on a financial board of a local church, and while there maybe some out there that are different, the finances are strictly watched to make sure no "profits" are made, that everything is spent for operations or improvements of the church.

  sleeper is an asshole but he's right. Religious organizations should not be classified as non-profits.
• HitsRus

  

  Religion corrupts the intellectual integrity of people

  (from sleeper's first post on this thread.) It is you who threw down the intellectual gauntlet...yet you've posted twice at least...

  [INDENT]When the only content you add to a discussion is pointing out that me, a human, is generalizing, you might as well not even post at all. That's what humans do, they generalize, that is how the world works. Welcome to reality. [/INDENT]

  
  I'm afraid if we read anymore of your nonsense, We'll have no intellectual integrity left.
  Generalizations,#weaksauce.
• fish82

  

  I Wear Pants;1077368 wrote:Ok, then why don't they quit ****ing whining and do just that?

  Beats me...ask them. The fact remains that Medicaid payments don't even cover the cost of providing the service. I'll go out on a limb and theorize that those Eeeeeviiiil Religious Freaks are practicing that "charity" thingy that seems to be a cornerstone of their faith.
  
  Another idea would be to just take it through the courts, as the rule is a pretty clear cut violation of the First Amendment. Maybe that's what they're "fucking whining" about.
• fish82

  

  I Wear Pants;1077379 wrote:sleeper is an **** but he's right. Religious organizations should not be classified as non-profits.

  Why not?
• HitsRus

  

  Religious organizations should not be classified as non-profits.

  On what basis. My little league baseball association is a non profit. Please....you have to have a reason other than you don't like them.
• sleeper

  

  HitsRus;1077399 wrote:On what basis. My little league baseball association is a non profit. Please....you have to have a reason other than you don't like them.

  Because they are a business. Please post what basis Exxon shouldn't be non-profit. Thank you.
• jmog

  I Wear Pants;1077379 wrote:sleeper is an **** but he's right. Religious organizations should not be classified as non-profits.

  Can you give a valid reason?
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  Devils Advocate;1077122 wrote:And the institution is free to say no to federal funding.
  
  The Gubmint is not forcing or mandating that anyone use birth control. only that it is available.
  
  The Catholic Church should have no fear of this issue. If their followers do not wish to use birth conrol, no one is forcing themto submit to the dogma.
  
  I know several Catholic families that have 2 or fewer children. Do you think that they do not use birth control? or are they just really good at spray and pray?

  Or they're just well educated on Natural Family Planning. Which is more effective than nearly all forms of birth control. You just can't be a tard to use it so most people on here would be SOL.
• I Wear Pants

  jmog;1077404 wrote:Can you give a valid reason?

  Honestly anything that isn't specifically a charitable organization shouldn't be non-profit.
• I Wear Pants

  fish82;1077390 wrote:Beats me...ask them. The fact remains that Medicaid payments don't even cover the cost of providing the service. I'll go out on a limb and theorize that those Eeeeeviiiil Religious Freaks are practicing that "charity" thingy that seems to be a cornerstone of their faith.
  
  Another idea would be to just take it through the courts, as the rule is a pretty clear cut violation of the First Amendment. Maybe that's what they're "fucking whining" about.

  While at the same time practicing bigotry and hate which is another cornerstone apparently.
• Devils Advocate

  

  ZWICK 4 PREZ;1077411 wrote:Or they're just well educated on Natural Family Planning. Which is more effective than nearly all forms of birth control. You just can't be a tard to use it so most people on here would be SOL.

  If you think that the rythm method is more effective than a rubber or hormonal treatment to stop ovulation, I think you should look in the ol mirror and redefine your definition of tard.
  
  Birth Control Methods: Comparison Chart
  

  Method of Birth Control	How Many Couples Using This Method Will Get Pregnant in a Year?	How Well Does This Method Work in Preventing Pregnancy?	Can This Method Also Protect Against STDs?
  Consistent Abstinence	None	Completely effective	Yes
  Birth Control Patch ("The Patch")	8 out of 100	Effective	No
  Birth Control Pill ("The Pill")	8 out of 100	Effective	No
  Birth Control Ring ("The Ring")	8 out of 100	Effective	No
  Female Condom	21 out of 100	Less effective	Yes
  Male Condom	15 out of 100	Moderately effective	Yes
  Birth Control Shot	3 out of 100	Effective	No
  Diaphragm	16 out of 100	Moderately effective	No
  Emergency Contraception	1 to 2 out of 100	Very effective	No
  IUD	Fewer than 1 out of 100	Very effective	No
  Fertility Awareness	25 out of 100	Less effective	No
  Spermicide	29 out of 100	Less effective	No
  Withdrawal ("Pulling Out")	27 out of 100	Less effective	No
  Not Using Any Birth Control	85 out of 100	Not effective	No

  
  
  Notice that fertility awareness is ranked 11 ot of thirteen? it barely edges out spray and pray.
• fish82

  

  I Wear Pants;1077423 wrote:While at the same time practicing bigotry and hate which is another cornerstone apparently.

  If you say so, sure. :rolleyes:
• ZWICK 4 PREZ

  

  It's not the rhythm method
• I Wear Pants

  fish82;1077439 wrote:If you say so, sure. :rolleyes:

  But it is.
  
  They use their personal views to attempt to make other people do the things they believe. See any law banning x on Sunday, marriage laws, etc. I would have no problem with religion if they stopped trying to force people to do what they believe in/to not do what they don't. Doing that makes you an asshole.
• Bigdogg

  fish82;1077359 wrote:My day is fine, thanks.
  
  Please provide some backup for your "if they didn't have to take them, they would not" line.
  
  If you're gonna ride someone's coattails to try and take me on, I'd suggest a different horse. That said, you do what you think is best. :laugh:

  Already did. You do not know how to read a audited financial report. I am not here to hold your hand.