Obama nixes Keystone XL Pipeline permit.

• QuakerOats

  .....as though baby killers would ever vote for a conservative. Who gives a sh!! about the radical left.
• Footwedge

  dwccrew;1099810 wrote:It doesn't surprise me that an environmental group would oppose such a project. They based their article of a NRDC finding. The article is noted, I still don't believe that this pipeline would be anymore dangerous than TransCanada has advertised. JMO

  I have no idea on the subject, really. I'm actually for more drilling here in the states. But I guess we export more than we pull in right now. I would have thought it would be smarter to build refineries up north...but maybe it's tougher to process in colder climates.
  
  Like I said, I don't really know $hit about this subject.
• BGFalcons82

  

  Footwedge;1100960 wrote:I have no idea on the subject, really. I'm actually for more drilling here in the states. But I guess we export more than we pull in right now. I would have thought it would be smarter to build refineries up north...but maybe it's tougher to process in colder climates.
  
  Like I said, I don't really know $hit about this subject.

  You are correct in that the U.S. is currently exporting more than is being kept here. I know you claim not to know much, but here's an easy question: If the global rate for crude oil is $125+/barrel and the rate in the U.S. only pays about $105/barrel, where should the oil companies sell their product? Where do they get the most bang for their shareholder's investment...here or in say, China?
  
  The world's lust for the black gold is helping to drive the world market's higher and our own oil companies are doing exactly what any Harvard-schooled business executive would do. It's been opined in some of the major media markets that this is wrong and Uncle Barry should stop them from selling oil for a higher profit and keep it right here at home. It's a slippery slope for sure...socialize another industry in the name of fairness and security or let capitalism run its due course?
• dwccrew

  

  Footwedge;1100960 wrote:I have no idea on the subject, really. I'm actually for more drilling here in the states. But I guess we export more than we pull in right now. I would have thought it would be smarter to build refineries up north...but maybe it's tougher to process in colder climates.
  
  Like I said, I don't really know $hit about this subject.

  I'm guessing it is much cheaper to build the pipeline. Refineries are VERY VERY expensive to build and maintain. You are also correct that in cold weather it is harder to refine. I work at a refinery in Ohio (and you know how our winters can get), many times crude will set up and turn into a sludge if we don't keep our lines traced with steam lines.
  
  Also, in my plant alone (our refinery has 8 different plants) we have one unit (in my plant we have 4 large units that serve different functions) that alone cost the company I work for $450 million. That's in one plant. And it was a wet gas scrubber that is now mandated by the EPA. People want to know why gas is so expensive? Because it is expensive to refine.
• gut

  BGFalcons82;1100974 wrote:You are correct in that the U.S. is currently exporting more than is being kept here.

  I think we're only exporting natural gas (well, and coal)....possibly some refined crude but not the stuff right out of the ground.
• j_crazy

  

  gut;1101218 wrote:I think we're only exporting natural gas (well, and coal)....possibly some refined crude but not the stuff right out of the ground.

  
  So many questions...
  
  Okay.
  
  1 what is well and coal gas?
  2 what do you mean refined oil?
• BlackSmith

  

  KnightRyder;1060179 wrote:Obama made the correct and responsible decision. Oil-sands crude is the dirtiest oil on the planet. Before it can be pumped, it needs to be liquified by heating it to a high temperature and then treated with highly toxic and corrosive chemical additives. Building codes for pipelines in this country were written for traditional crude; not oil-sands crude, which is more corrosive, hotter, and must be pumped at a much higher PSI than conventional crude. The Keystone line would have been constructed on the cheap in accordance with conventional pipeline building codes, thus making leaks inevitable according to TransCanada's own data. Do we really want this poisonous cocktail leaking into our water supply and precious farmland? And for what? So the oil can pass from Canada to the Gulf and then immediately be exported abroad? Screw that. Only an irresponsible child (or money hungry oil profiteer) would sign off on this can of worms without thoroughly examining all the risks and without conducting proper and thorough cost-benefit analyses. Moreover, several independent studies including one conducted by Cornell University have shown the project probably would have created somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,000 (temporary) jobs, and not the ridiculously exaggerated 20,000 jobs TransCanada claimed it would create. Not only that, virtually every independent study conducted on this issue has shown the pipeline would not move the U.S. one inch closer to energy independence. Think, folks. Why should the U.S. assume the risk of a catastrophic environmental disaster just to make it easier for Canada to get its dirty crude to the Gulf where it will immediately be exported abroad? 2,000 temporary jobs ain't worth the risk

  So Sad, A pidge:madn died tonite
• LJ

  

  j_crazy;1101223 wrote:So many questions...
  
  Okay.
  
  1 what is well and coal gas?
  2 what do you mean refined oil?

  The U.S. is a net exporter in petroleum products and a net importer of crude oil. You get about 44 gallons of product from a barrel of oil and only 19 of it is gasoline and 35 of it is fuel oil of some type. The U.S. exports a lot of that 9 gallons that is left.
• gut

  j_crazy;1101223 wrote:So many questions...
  
  Okay.
  
  1 what is well and coal gas?
  2 what do you mean refined oil?

  I might have used poor grammar, but I didn't mean well gas or even coal gas, just that we export a lot of coal (and natural gas, which is typically exported as liquid natural gas to move more volume).
  
  Refined oil is what they do with raw crude down in the gulf and refineries around the country. 42 gallons per barrel makes about 19½ gallons of gasoline, 9 gallons of fuel oil [heating oil], 4 gallons of jet fuel, and 11 gallons of other products, including lubricants, kerosene, asphalt, and petrochemical feedstocks to make plastics.
• dwccrew

  

  gut;1101965 wrote:I might have used poor grammar, but I didn't mean well gas or even coal gas, just that we export a lot of coal (and natural gas, which is typically exported as liquid natural gas to move more volume).
  
  Refined oil is what they do with raw crude down in the gulf and refineries around the country. 42 gallons per barrel makes about 19½ gallons of gasoline, 9 gallons of fuel oil [heating oil], 4 gallons of jet fuel, and 11 gallons of other products, including lubricants, kerosene, asphalt, and petrochemical feedstocks to make plastics.

  At the refinery I work at, some of the final products are as follows: Gasoline, Jet fuel, Diesel, Benzene, Toulene, Xylene, Kerosene, Fuel Gas, etc. We make a lot of different products off one barrel of crude.
• Abe Vigoda

  

  QuakerOats;1100722 wrote:.....as though baby killers would ever vote for a conservative. Who gives a sh!! about the radical left.

  So you could care less if a spill could contaminate the most important aquifer in the US?
  
  
• Abe Vigoda

  

  QuakerOats;1100193 wrote:Yeah --- we have no experience with pipelines or safety:
  
  

  So you trust the oil companies?
  

  [h=1]Oil Spills and Disasters[/h] The following list includes major oil spills since 1967. The circumstances surrounding the spill, amount of oil spilled, and the attendant environmental damage is also given.
  
  
  1967March 18, Cornwall, Eng.: Torrey Canyon ran aground, spilling 38 million gallons of crude oil off the Scilly Islands.1976Dec. 15, Buzzards Bay, Mass.: Argo Merchant ran aground and broke apart southeast of Nantucket Island, spilling its entire cargo of 7.7 million gallons of fuel oil.1977April, North Sea: blowout of well in Ekofisk oil field leaked 81 million gallons.1978March 16, off Portsall, France: wrecked supertanker Amoco Cadiz spilled 68 million gallons, causing widespread environmental damage over 100 mi of Brittany coast.1979June 3, Gulf of Mexico: exploratory oil well Ixtoc 1 blew out, spilling an estimated 140 million gallons of crude oil into the open sea. Although it is one of the largest known oil spills, it had a low environmental impact.July 19, Tobago: the Atlantic Empress and the Aegean Captain collided, spilling 46 million gallons of crude. While being towed, the Atlantic Empress spilled an additional 41 million gallons off Barbados on Aug. 2.1980March 30, Stavanger, Norway: floating hotel in North Sea collapsed, killing 123 oil workers.1983Feb. 4, Persian Gulf, Iran: Nowruz Field platform spilled 80 million gallons of oil.Aug. 6, Cape Town, South Africa: the Spanish tanker Castillo de Bellver caught fire, spilling 78 million gallons of oil off the coast.1988July 6, North Sea off Scotland: 166 workers killed in explosion and fire on Occidental Petroleum's Piper Alpha rig in North Sea; 64 survivors. It is the world's worst offshore oil disaster.Nov. 10, Saint John's, Newfoundland: Odyssey spilled 43 million gallons of oil.1989March 24, Prince William Sound, Alaska: tanker Exxon Valdez hit an undersea reef and spilled 10 million&#8211lus gallons of oil into the water, causing the worst oil spill in U.S. history.Dec. 19, off Las Palmas, the Canary Islands: explosion in Iranian supertanker, the Kharg-5, caused 19 million gallons of crude oil to spill into Atlantic Ocean about 400 mi north of Las Palmas, forming a 100-square-mile oil slick.1990June 8, off Galveston, Tex.: Mega Borg released 5.1 million gallons of oil some 60 nautical miles south-southeast of Galveston as a result of an explosion and subsequent fire in the pump room.1991Jan. 23–27, southern Kuwait: during the Persian Gulf War, Iraq deliberately released 240–460 million gallons of crude oil into the Persian Gulf from tankers 10 mi off Kuwait. Spill had little military significance. On Jan. 27, U.S. warplanes bombed pipe systems to stop the flow of oil.April 11, Genoa, Italy: Haven spilled 42 million gallons of oil in Genoa port.May 28, Angola: ABT Summer exploded and leaked 15–78 million gallons of oil off the coast of Angola. It's not clear how much sank or burned.1992March 2, Fergana Valley, Uzbekistan: 88 million gallons of oil spilled from an oil well.1993Aug. 10, Tampa Bay, Fla.: three ships collided, the barge Bouchard B155, the freighter Balsa 37, and the barge Ocean 255. The Bouchard spilled an estimated 336,000 gallons of No. 6 fuel oil into Tampa Bay.1994Sept. 8, Russia: dam built to contain oil burst and spilled oil into Kolva River tributary. U.S. Energy Department estimated spill at 2 million barrels. Russian state-owned oil company claimed spill was only 102,000 barrels.1996Feb. 15, off Welsh coast: supertanker Sea Empress ran aground at port of Milford Haven, Wales, spewed out 70,000 tons of crude oil, and created a 25-mile slick.1999Dec. 12, French Atlantic coast: Maltese-registered tanker Erika broke apart and sank off Britanny, spilling 3 million gallons of heavy oil into the sea.2000Jan. 18, off Rio de Janeiro: ruptured pipeline owned by government oil company, Petrobras, spewed 343,200 gallons of heavy oil into Guanabara Bay.Nov. 28, Mississippi River south of New Orleans: oil tanker Westchester lost power and ran aground near Port Sulphur, La., dumping 567,000 gallons of crude oil into lower Mississippi. Spill was largest in U.S. waters since Exxon Valdez disaster in March 1989.2002Nov. 13, Spain: Prestige suffered a damaged hull and was towed to sea and sank. Much of the 20 million gallons of oil remains underwater. 2003July 28, Pakistan: The Tasman Spirit, a tanker, ran aground near the Karachi port, and eventually cracked into two pieces. One of its four oil tanks burst open, leaking 28,000 tons of crude oil into the sea. 2004Dec. 7, Unalaska, Aleutian Islands, Alaska: A major storm pushed the M/V Selendang Ayu up onto a rocky shore, breaking it in two. 337,000 gallons of oil were released, most of which was driven onto the shoreline of Makushin and Skan Bays.2005Aug.-Sept., New Orleans, Louisiana: The Coast Guard estimated that more than 7 million gallons of oil were spilled during Hurricane Katrina from various sources, including pipelines, storage tanks and industrial plants. 2006June 19, Calcasieu River, Louisiana: An estimated 71,000 barrels of waste oil were released from a tank at the CITGO Refinery on the Calcasieu River during a violent rain storm.July 15, Beirut, Lebanon: The Israeli navy bombs the Jieh coast power station, and between three million and ten million gallons of oil leaks into the sea, affecting nearly 100 miles of coastline. A coastal blockade, a result of the war, greatly hampers outside clean-up efforts.August 11th, Guimaras island, The Philippines: A tanker carrying 530,000 gallons of oil sinks off the coast of the Philippines, putting the country's fishing and tourism industries at great risk. The ship sinks in deep water, making it virtually unrecoverable, and it continues to emit oil into the ocean as other nations are called in to assist in the massive clean-up effort.2007December 7, South Korea: Oil spill causes environmental disaster, destroying beaches, coating birds and oysters with oil, and driving away tourists with its stench. The Hebei Spirit collides with a steel wire connecting a tug boat and barge five miles off South Korea's west coast, spilling 2.8 million gallons of crude oil. Seven thousand people are trying to clean up 12 miles of oil-coated coast. 2008July 25, New Orleans, Louisiana: A 61-foot barge, carrying 419,000 gallons of heavy fuel, collides with a 600-foot tanker ship in the Mississippi River near New Orleans. Hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel leak from the barge, causing a halt to all river traffic while cleanup efforts commence to limit the environmental fallout on local wildlife. 2009March 11, Queensland, Australia: During Cyclone Hamish, unsecured cargo aboard the container ship MV Pacific Adventurer came loose on deck and caused the release of 52,000 gallons of heavy fuel and 620 tons of ammonium nitrate, a fertilizer, into the Coral Sea. About 60 km of the Sunshine Coast was covered in oil, prompting the closure of half the area's beaches. 2010Jan. 23, Port Arthur, Texas: The oil tanker Eagle Otome and a barge collide in the Sabine-Neches Waterway, causing the release of about 462,000 gallons of crude oil. Environmental damage was minimal as about 46,000 gallons were recovered and 175,000 gallons were dispersed or evaporated, according to the U.S. Coast Guard. April 24, Gulf of Mexico: The Deepwater Horizon, a semi-submersible drilling rig, sank on April 22, after an April 20th explosion on the vessel. Eleven people died in the blast. When the rig sank, the riser—the 5,000-foot-long pipe that connects the wellhead to the rig—became detached and began leaking oil. In addition, U.S. Coast Guard investigators discovered a leak in the wellhead itself. As much as 60,000 barrels of oil per day were leaking into the water, threatening wildlife along the Louisiana Coast. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano declared it a "spill of national significance." BP (British Petroleum), which leased the Deepwater Horizon, is responsible for the cleanup, but the U.S. Navy supplied the company with resources to help contain the slick. Oil reached the Louisiana shore on April 30, affected about 125 miles of coast. By early June, oil had also reached Florida, Alabama, and Mississippi. It is the largest oil spill in U.S. history. [LEFT]
  Read more: Oil Spills and Disasters — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001451.html#ixzz1ntbJAfOK
  [/LEFT]

  http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001451.html
• HitsRus

  

  Despite the map above which shows pipelines criss crossing the United States we have had a handfull of pipeline leaks of any significance in 45 years. The vast majority of the oil spills listed in your link are from well blow outs and tanker spills/accidents...and not even in this country. The conclusion to be drawn here is that pipelines are a relatively safe way of transporting crude vs. tankers....which is how the oil from Canada will be shipped unless the pipeline goes thru.
  
  This is strictly a political issue, period....and BHO's feet need to be held to the fire on this.
• Footwedge

  dwccrew;1102182 wrote:At the refinery I work at, some of the final products are as follows: Gasoline, Jet fuel, Diesel, Benzene, Toulene, Xylene, Kerosene, Fuel Gas, etc. We make a lot of different products off one barrel of crude.

  Benzine? One of the biggest carcinogens out there. Toluene and Xylene aren't much better. Good thing you work in the US where stringent safety laws are in place for the workers exposed to these solvents. 20 short years ago, these solvents were deadly killers in the states...especially benzene.
• dwccrew

  

  Footwedge;1102579 wrote:Benzine? One of the biggest carcinogens out there. Toluene and Xylene aren't much better. Good thing you work in the US where stringent safety laws are in place for the workers exposed to these solvents. 20 short years ago, these solvents were deadly killers in the states...especially benzene.

  Trust me, there are plenty of procedures and safeguards in place. We must test any area in which Benzene may be present. If it is >.5 ppm, we must wear respirator. Fortunately for me, I don't work in any area where Benzene is present. My former employer was a chemical company in which I was exposed more often to those solvents, now I am only around Gasoline, LCO (Light Cycle Oil), HCO (Heavy Cycle Oil), CSO (Clarified Slurry Oil) and Virgin Crude. But we do have Hydrogen Sulfide that may be present in my area, but we wear monitors for that. I am confident in the safeguards our refinery has in place, they exceed OSHA standards.
• BAMABUCK

  Drill-pipe-frack-PRODUCE energy now!
• jmog

  Abe Vigoda;1102214 wrote:So you trust the oil companies?
  
  
  
  http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001451.html

  We are talking about a pipe, your list is mostly well problems.
  
  Piping is 100 times easier and less risky than getting the oil out in the first place.
• Abe Vigoda

  

  jmog;1105971 wrote:We are talking about a pipe, your list is mostly well problems.
  
  Piping is 100 times easier and less risky than getting the oil out in the first place.

  Except I was talking about trusting the oil companies. The oil coming through this pipe is different and under high pressure I understand.
• jmog

  Abe Vigoda;1107144 wrote:Except I was talking about trusting the oil companies. The oil coming through this pipe is different and under high pressure I understand.

  Yes, higher temperature and higher pressure, but its still pipe. This is not a hard area of engineering.
• said_aouita

  

  Devils Advocate;1060317 wrote:Yaaaawwwwnnnnn.
  
  

  Devils Advocate;1059934 wrote:
  
  How does this help our energy independence?
  It may not but would rather import oil from hosers then a bunch of towel heads.
  
  Job creation? How many of these jobs are pemanent?
  I dunno but it's a few more then right now without the pipeline.
  
  How do you feel about the gubmint taking your land and pay you what they consider "fair market value". And even if it is not your land, you have to look out your window every day and look at that shit?
  It's what makes America great. Good for the masses. If you don't like it, move to where we'd be getting the sand oil.

  Playing along also, response in red.
  
  
  Treehuggers favorite color is ham.
  
  
  
• QuakerOats

  The job-killing democrats strike again!
  
  http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73795.html
  
  Change we can believe in ...
• HitsRus

  

  ,,,,maybe if they keep talking about Rush Limbaugh, nobody will notice what they are doing here.:mad:
• stlouiedipalma

  Will the Keystone Pipeline lower gasoline prices in the US?
  
  No
  
  
  This whole thread is an excellent example of the Republican mantra of "If you tell a lie long enough, people will believe it to be true".
• HitsRus

  

  The pipeline is about energy security...but it's rejection by BHO is emblematic of his anti-oil policy that will surely cause prices to remain high and/or climb higher.
• Devils Advocate

  

  HitsRus;1111134 wrote:The pipeline is about energy security...but it's rejection by BHO is emblematic of his anti-oil policy that will surely cause prices to remain high and/or climb higher.

  How does Canadian oil help with US oil security??
  
  The gas produced will sell to the country willing to pay the most.
  
  There is more off shore drilling than there has been in the last 10 years.