Archive

Dow plummets 500+ points, Nasdaq down over 5%

  • believer
    WebFire;859180 wrote:Down one day because of bad economic news, up the next because of good economic news. Then repeat.

    What is this shit?
    Obamanomics
  • gut
    Cleveland Buck;858539 wrote:The dollar has been getting trashed for the last 20 years. Obama is just finishing the job.
    Sad part is, the dollar is being propped up only because the EU and Japan are in arguably worse shape.
  • Cleveland Buck
    gut;859520 wrote:Sad part is, the dollar is being propped up only because the EU and Japan are in arguably worse shape.

    Japan is fighting to keep their currency weak right now, they really aren't in worse shape than we are. Europe is pretty much fucked, but that isn't a huge surprise.
  • majorspark
    Footwedge;859162 wrote:They don't represent what fiscal hawks represent.
    You will never know. You kick them in the chin as soon as their head appears above the ladder. People change. You did. I did. Perhaps they are just scum sucking hypocrites. I am sure some are. But not all. You have a lot of bitterness built up inside you. You need to find a productive way to deal with it.
    Footwedge;859162 wrote:What minority am I in?
    Fiscal hawks. If they were the majority our country would not be in the financial situation it finds itself in.
  • dwccrew
    WebFire;859180 wrote:Down one day because of bad economic news, up the next because of good economic news. Then repeat.

    What is this ****?

    Down 600 points on Monday. Up 429 on Tuesday. Down 519 Wednesday. Up 400+ Thursday. So the Dow is still lower than were it began at the beginning of the weak. These huge swings are meaningless. We'll see what happens when the dust settles.
  • believer
    dwccrew;859587 wrote:Down 600 points on Monday. Up 429 on Tuesday. Down 519 Wednesday. Up 400+ Thursday. So the Dow is still lower than were it began at the beginning of the weak. These huge swings are meaningless. We'll see what happens when the dust settles.
    Settles from what exactly? The S&P sets the gubmint credit rating at AA+ and then the world markets instantly fluctuate somewhat wildly up and down each day.

    If this is meaningless then why is the Dow jumping up and down like school girls skipping rope?

    In my admittedly economically challenged world, a market that is this skittish means something isn't right.

    Maybe Gut can explain it?
  • QuakerOats
    believer;859223 wrote:Obamanomics


    Trickle up poverty
  • Footwedge
    majorspark;859581 wrote:You will never know. You kick them in the chin as soon as their head appears above the ladder. People change. You did. I did. Perhaps they are just scum sucking hypocrites. I am sure some are. But not all. You have a lot of bitterness built up inside you. You need to find a productive way to deal with it.


    Internet....serious business. Maybe I need an internet shrink to fix my bitterness.
  • majorspark
    Footwedge;860934 wrote:Internet....serious business. Maybe I need an internet shrink to fix my bitterness.
    Internet shrinks are free. Perhaps I can help you. Just keep in mind you can't sue me if you are beyond help.

    In the face of 9/11 and balless republican leadership to officially declare war, the expansion of the federal government with no child left behind, and finally medicare part D. Part Dickless was about the time I came to my senses and stopped giving my hard earned dollars to the republican party.

    Elitist republican leaders thought they could kneecap the democrats by upping their game. Republicans don't want children to starve and old people to eat dog food. Look, we can prove it, we passed legislation expanding the federal government.
  • believer
    majorspark;860946 wrote:Internet shrinks are free. Perhaps I can help you. Just keep in mind you can't sue me if you are beyond help.

    In the face of 9/11 and balless republican leadership to officially declare war, the expansion of the federal government with no child left behind, and finally medicare part D. Part Dickless was about the time I came to my senses and stopped giving my hard earned dollars to the republican party.
    It happened for me even before that when the 1994 Contract with America crew proved they could spend with the best of the Democrats.

    When Gingrich's bunch took power, I was absolutely delighted. I sincerely believed that this group would change DC politics for the better.

    Huge disappointment to say the least.
  • cruiser_96
    America... 30 or 40 years behind Europeans. Republicans... 15 to 20 behind Dems.

    Zero leadership skills. Zero ability to create a plan AND then stick to it. Seems to me they are caught in a game of "Let's see what the Dems do and then we'll do it better"!
  • Cleveland Buck
    Yeah we have been striving to catch up to Europe and their failing banks and 15+ years of stagnant economic growth. Don't worry, we are just about there though. It won't take 20 years to catch up.
  • Footwedge
    majorspark;860946 wrote:Internet shrinks are free. Perhaps I can help you. Just keep in mind you can't sue me if you are beyond help.

    In the face of 9/11 and balless republican leadership to officially declare war, the expansion of the federal government with no child left behind, and finally medicare part D. Part ****less was about the time I came to my senses and stopped giving my hard earned dollars to the republican party.

    Elitist republican leaders thought they could kneecap the democrats by upping their game. Republicans don't want children to starve and old people to eat dog food. Look, we can prove it, we passed legislation expanding the federal government.
    Hey Spark...sorry I ruffled your feathers on my Rush Limbaugh rant. If you're ever around SE Ohio, PM me. I'll be happy to buy you lunch. Sure I come across as a pompous ass on here. But people shouldn't take this crap all that seriously. It's the internet....and it's just politics.

    People come here for the same reason others go to play golf, or play chess. play poker, or even work in their yard. It's entertainment. Others don't come here....because this place doesn't entertain them.

    In real life. I'm as sweet as a bed of roses....and I have spent 29 years of my life kissing clients/customers asses every week in the world of professional sales. It's how I put food on my family, ya know. So I come here and express my opinions which are counter culture in most cases. Some people agree with my assessments...and others think my thinking process is akin to a train wreck. I'm good with all that. I love the banter...it's fun. And if people agreed with me. I would get bored. pick up my ball and go home to momma. One poster here...who has never added one thought provoking idea on this site, loves to call me a liar....and lying is something I have never done here...or on any other poli site. Now there's your bitter beer prototype.
  • believer
    cruiser_96;861043 wrote:America... 30 or 40 years behind Europeans.

    LMAO!


    30 to 40 years behind what? Decades of rampant socialism tailored to leech off capitalist wealth has finally brought the European "Union" to the brink of economic disaster and you think Amerika should emulate that?

    GTFO
  • cruiser_96
    believer;861352 wrote:
    LMAO!


    30 to 40 years behind what? Decades of rampant socialism tailored to leech off capitalist wealth has finally brought the European "Union" to the brink of economic disaster and you think Amerika should emulate that?

    GTFO

    I'm not saying I like it. I am just stating the trend. TRUST ME!!! when I say I don't like the trend.

    But, just to clarify, our current admin IS trying to lead us that way.
  • BGFalcons82
    cruiser_96;861543 wrote:But, just to clarify, our current admin IS trying to lead us that way.

    No No No...just ask Boatshoes. This administration is to the right of Reagan's. No question about it according to him. Socialism is the furthest thing from Hussein Obama's mind. He really believes in free markets, capitalism, and government just being a safety net for the poor and oppressed. How can you be so lame as to not see how Barry and the Agitators are the second coming of John Birch? Shame on you. Come on, Boatshoes....tell him.
  • believer
    BGFalcons82;861737 wrote:No No No...just ask Boatshoes. This administration is to the right of Reagan's. No question about it according to him. Socialism is the furthest thing from Hussein Obama's mind. He really believes in free markets, capitalism, and government just being a safety net for the poor and oppressed. How can you be so lame as to not see how Barry and the Agitators are the second coming of John Birch? Shame on you. Come on, Boatshoes....tell him.
    True. Obama is easily the most business-friendly, pro-free market POTUS in my lifetime. BHO makes Reagan seem like Karl Marx.
  • cruiser_96
    I once was lost but now am found, 'twas blind but now I see.

    Am I to assume that Obama is so far right that he's even a racist!? A bigot!?!?! Homophobe, to boot!?!?!?!?! Saints alive!!! It's a wonder I've survived this long in the dark.
  • believer
    cruiser_96;862025 wrote:I once was lost but now am found, 'twas blind but now I see.

    Am I to assume that Obama is so far right that he's even a racist!? A bigot!?!?! Homophobe, to boot!?!?!?!?! Saints alive!!! It's a wonder I've survived this long in the dark.
    Aw....I see you're a Church of Boatshoes convert!
  • cruiser_96
    I'm only a recent convert, but I'm pretty sure you mean boatshoes in the sense of the Almighty. At least, that is what I was directed to call the Almighty. And the Almighty Boatshoes has converted me; brought me into the light! (Isaiah 5:20!!! ;) )
  • BoatShoes
    BGFalcons82;861737 wrote:No No No...just ask Boatshoes. This administration is to the right of Reagan's. No question about it according to him. Socialism is the furthest thing from Hussein Obama's mind. He really believes in free markets, capitalism, and government just being a safety net for the poor and oppressed. How can you be so lame as to not see how Barry and the Agitators are the second coming of John Birch? Shame on you. Come on, Boatshoes....tell him.

    I realize you're being facetious but I said moderate republican. Clearly BHO is not right enough to your liking as you essentially hold the same beliefs as Ayn Rand. As the Editor of Tax Analysts Martin Sullivan wrote, "By today's standards, the Gipper would easily qualify for status as a back-stabbing, treacherous RINO [Republican in Name Only],"

    When BHO first came on to the seen I like you thought he was probably a strong liberal and would govern as such. I was wrong. He is a Rawlsian consensus maker and has been by all accounts since his time at HLS. He seems to believe, wrongly, that modern conservatives would rather preserve the union with pluralistic constituents and coexist with liberals than the opposite. And, reasonable, moderate conservatives are beginning to agree with me...Bruce Bartlett, David Frum, David Brooks and more moderate politically minded individuals and on and on. People way smarter than me. I mean can you believe he was so sure that the Republicans would not use the Debt Ceiling as a negotiation tool? He was sure of it....even though Jim DeMint nor Michelle Bachmann never even pretended to be willing to negotiate.

    But, you cannot shake the faith of the true believer and you my friend are a true believer in the inherent evil that is BHO. No proselytizing on my part will convert you.
  • BoatShoes
    cruiser_96;862312 wrote:I'm only a recent convert, but I'm pretty sure you mean boatshoes in the sense of the Almighty. At least, that is what I was directed to call the Almighty. And the Almighty Boatshoes has converted me; brought me into the light! (Isaiah 5:20!!! ;) )

    Don't hate bra
  • BoatShoes
    Christina Romer making too much sense...now if only Barry would stop trying to appease the unreasonable who will repudiate him no matter what.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/business/economy/from-world-war-ii-economic-lessons-for-today.html?_r=2&pagewanted=print&pagewanted=all

    "AFTER the grim economic developments of the last few weeks, it’s easy to lose hope. Could the Great Recession of 2008 drag on for years, just as the Great Depression did in the 1930s? Adding to the despair is the oft-repeated notion that it took World War II to end the economic nightmare of the ’30s: If a global war was needed to return the economy to full employment then, what is going to save us today?

    Look more closely at history and you’ll see that the truth is much more complicated — and less gloomy. While the war helped the recovery from the Depression, the economy was improving long before military spending increased. More fundamentally, the wrenching wartime experience provides a message of hope for our troubled economy today: we have the tools to deal with our problems, if only policy makers will use them.

    As I showed in an academic paper years ago, the war first affected the economy through monetary developments. Starting in the mid-1930s, Hitler’s aggression caused capital flight from Europe. People wanted to invest somewhere safer — particularly in the United States. Under the gold standard of that time, the flight to safety caused large gold flows to America. The Treasury Department under President Franklin D. Roosevelt used that inflow to increase the money supply.

    The result was an aggressive monetary expansion that effectively ended deflation. Real borrowing costs decreased and interest-sensitive spending rose rapidly. The economy responded strongly. From 1933 to 1937, real gross domestic product grew at an annual rate of almost 10 percent, and unemployment fell from 25 percent to 14. To put that in perspective, G.D.P. growth has averaged just 2.5 percent in the current recovery, and unemployment has barely budged.

    There is clearly a lesson for modern policy makers. Monetary expansion was very effective in the mid-1930s, even though nominal interest rates were near zero, as they are today. The Federal Reserve’s policy statement last week provided tantalizing hints that it may be taking this lesson to heart and using its available tools more aggressively in coming months.

    One reason the Depression dragged on so long was that the rapid recovery of the mid-1930s was interrupted by a second severe recession in late 1937. Though many factors had a role in the “recession within a recession,” monetary and fiscal policy retrenchment were central. In monetary policy, the Fed doubled bank reserve requirements and the Treasury stopped monetizing the gold inflow. In fiscal policy, the federal budget swung sharply, from a stimulative deficit of 3.8 percent of G.D.P. in 1936 to a small surplus in 1937.

    The lesson here is to beware of withdrawing policy support too soon. A switch to contractionary policy before the economy is fully recovered can cause the economy to decline again. Such a downturn may be particularly large when an economy is still traumatized from an earlier crisis.

    The recent downgrade of American government debt by Standard & Poor’s makes this point especially crucial. It would be a mistake to respond by reducing the deficit more sharply in the near term. That would almost surely condemn us to a repeat of the 1937 downturn. And higher unemployment would make it all that much harder to get the deficit under control.

    Military spending didn’t begin to rise substantially until late 1940. Once it did, fiscal policy had an expansionary impact. Some economists argue that the effect wasn’t very large, as real government purchases (in 2005 dollars) rose by $1.4 billion from 1940 to 1944, while real G.D.P. rose only $0.9 billion.

    But this calculation misses two crucial facts: Taxes increased sharply, and the government took many actions to decrease private consumption, like instituting rationing and admonishing people to save. That output soared despite these factors suggests that increases in government spending had a powerful stimulative effect. Consistent with that, private nonfarm employment — which excludes active military personnel — rose by almost eight million from 1940 to 1944.

    The lesson here is that fiscal stimulus can help a depressed economy recover — an idea supported by new studies of the 2009 stimulus package. Additional short-run tax cuts or increases in government investment would help deal with our unemployment crisis.

    What of the idea that monetary and fiscal policy can do little if unemployment is caused by structural factors, like a mismatch between workers’ skills and available jobs? As I discussed in a previous column, such factors are probably small today.

    But World War II has something to tell us here, too. Because nearly 10 million men of prime working age were drafted into the military, there was a huge skills gap between the jobs that needed to be done on the home front and the remaining work force. Yet businesses and workers found a way to get the job done. Factories simplified production methods and housewives learned to rivet.

    Here the lesson is that demand is crucial — and that jobs don’t go unfilled for long. If jobs were widely available today, unemployed workers would quickly find a way to acquire needed skills or move to where the jobs were located.

    Finally, what about the national debt? Given the recent debt downgrade, it might seem impossible for the United States to embark on fiscal stimulus that would increase its ratio of debt to G.D.P.

    Well, at the end of World War II, that ratio hit 109 percent — one and a half times as high as it is now. Yet this had no obvious adverse consequences for growth or our ability to borrow.

    This isn’t hard to explain. Everyone understood then why the nation was racking up so much debt: we were fighting for survival, and for the survival of our allies. No one doubted that we would repay our debts. We had done it after every other war, and raising taxes even before the attack on Pearl Harbor showed our leaders’ fiscal resolve.

    Today, we can do much more to aid recovery, including a near-term increase in our debt. But we need to make the reasons clear and make concrete our commitment to deal with the debt over time.

    In place of the tepid budget agreement now in place, we could pass a bold plan with more short-run spending increases and tax cuts, coupled with much more serious, phased-in deficit reduction. By necessity, the plan would tackle entitlement reform and gradually raise tax revenue. This would be the World War II approach to our problems.

    Equally important, someone needs to explain to the nation and to world markets just why we must increase the debt in the short run. Unemployment of roughly 9 percent for 28 months and counting is a national emergency. We must fight it with the same passion and commitment we have brought to military emergencies in our past."


    Christina D. Romer is an economics professor at the University of California, Berkeley, and was the chairwoman of President Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers.


    It's funny I'm reminded by how often Writerbuckeye posts "those who fail to learn from history..."
  • queencitybuckeye
    tl;dr
  • Manhattan Buckeye
    "Christina Romer making too much sense...now if only Barry would stop trying to appease the unreasonable who will repudiate him no matter what. "

    He's appeasing folks in the midwest tour in states that voted for him or in fundraisers with intellectual powerhouses like Gwynneth Paltrow and Jimmy Fallon attending?

    That's an interesting appeasement.