U.S. Indicts Somali on Terror Charges

• ptown_trojans_1

  

  What will obviously be drowned out by all the other talk of Casey Anthony and the Debt talks, is this very interesting story.
  
  The Obama administration apprehended a terror suspect in Somalia, held him for two months at sea under military questions and now will try him in civilian court.
  
  The military interrogated the suspect for 2 months and then read him his rights, and handed him over to federal authorities. He was charged with 9 courts of terrorism related crimes.
  
  The administration says military trials in Gitmo offered limited options, while a civilian trial offered more.
  It also shows the administration is willing to arrest people outside a warzone and hold them as they see fit.
  
  Also, the interrogation of the suspect may have also lead to a successful drone strike in Somalia last month.
  Interesting to say the least and could signal a huge shift going forward.
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-security/us-indicts-somali-on-terrorism-charges/2011/07/05/gHQA8bbfzH_story.html?wpisrc=al_national
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  Here is the indictment. It reads exactly like the the 1993 WTC bombers. They got the guy for supporting al Shabaad in Somalia, but also AQAP in Yemen as well as having direct links to those groups.
  http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/Warsame_Indictment.pdf?ref=africa
  
  I'll also add one benefit to trying him in civilian court, is all you have to do is prove he has financial ties to a terrorist group. In a military court, they would have to prove he was a full on member of that group and was very active, something that is difficult and could reveal valuable sources.
• believer

  

  ptown_trojans_1;821949 wrote:The administration says military trials in Gitmo offered limited options, while a civilian trial offered more.
  
  Also, the interrogation of the suspect may have also lead to a successful drone strike in Somalia last month.

  Maybe some of our OC legal beagles can help explain why our civilian legal system gives us better options for dealing with terrorists than the military system.
  
  I wonder how many successful drone attacks would happen under our civilian justice system?
• coyotes22

  

  ptown_trojans_1;821949 wrote:What will obviously be drowned out by all the other talk of Casey Anthony and the Debt talks, is this very interesting story.
  
  The Obama administration apprehended a terror suspect in Somalia, held him for two months at sea under military questions and now will try him in civilian court.
  
  The military interrogated the suspect for 2 months and then read him his rights, and handed him over to federal authorities. He was charged with 9 courts of terrorism related crimes.
  
  The administration says military trials in Gitmo offered limited options, while a civilian trial offered more.
  It also shows the administration is willing to arrest people outside a warzone and hold them as they see fit.
  
  Also, the interrogation of the suspect may have also lead to a successful drone strike in Somalia last month.
  Interesting to say the least and could signal a huge shift going forward.
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-security/us-indicts-somali-on-terrorism-charges/2011/07/05/gHQA8bbfzH_story.html?wpisrc=al_national

  
  OMG, that is so against human rights!!!!
  
  I hope they didnt do an "illegal" interrogations too!!!
• BGFalcons82

  

  coyotes22;822440 wrote:OMG, that is so against human rights!!!!
  
  I hope they didnt do an "illegal" interrogations too!!!

  
  Huh....if they got all of that info BEFORE reading him his rights, then isn't all of that information inadmissable in U.S. criminal courts? I wonder how they'll convict the jihadist without any legally-obtained evidence? Maybe they'll let him walk and then decapitate him with a drone aircraft as he leaves the courthouse.
• jhay78

  

  ptown_trojans_1;821949 wrote:The military interrogated the suspect for 2 months and then read him his rights, and handed him over to federal authorities. He was charged with 9 courts of terrorism related crimes.

  
  What rights would those be?
• Writerbuckeye

  

  I find this story confusing, also. He wasn't read his miranda rights and was held for two months in some black ops prison at sea -- but then they do a 180 after getting the information and say they can use all that information in a criminal court trial because the standards for conviction are less?
  
  Trust me, I have no love of terrorists and want to see this guy fry if he's guilty (which he likely is), I just don't get the legalities of reversing course here.
  
  I also think that despite the focus on the budget and the trial in Florida, if this had happened under Bush, it would be kicked near the top of the story file by most news producers...questioning the legality of it all.
• majorspark

  

  From the article.
  

  The nine-count indictment, which was returned under seal by a federal grand jury in the Southern District of New York late last week, does not accuse Warsame of carrying out or plotting attacks against U.S. targets. It charges him with conspiracy and providing material support to two groups the United States considers terrorist organizations: al-Shabab, a militant Islamist group opposed to Somalia’s weak, U.S.-backed government, and Yemen-based al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP). Warsame is also accused of weapons offenses related to both alleged conspiracies; conspiracy to teach and demonstrate explosive-making; and receiving military training from AQAP.

  What US civilian law did this guy violate? He is not accused of carrying out or plotting attacks against US targets. Are we just picking up foreign nationals because they are operating in foreign organizations the US deems as terrorist? Perhaps the intent of his actions were to aid militant groups in Somalia and Yemen. I will have to read the indictment later.
• majorspark

  

  Writerbuckeye;822599 wrote:I find this story confusing, also. He wasn't read his miranda rights and was held for two months in some black ops prison at sea -- but then they do a 180 after getting the information and say they can use all that information in a criminal court trial because the standards for conviction are less?

  This activity alone should result in a dismissal of all charges in civilian court. Civilian and military do not mix. I order to try these types of fellows in civilian court we will have to undermine some of the very pillars of our civilian justice system.
• Devils Advocate

  

  I would like to think like this..
  
  
  On our land, in OUR courts.
  
  Foriegn land. Military courts.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  All the questions are rightfully so. I have no answer to some of them. It seems like the administration is trying a middle road, some military, some civilian. Also, appears the administration wants nothing to do with adding terrorists to Gitmo.
  It is against U.S. law to support known terrorist programs, so they can try him on that. That is how we got other terrorists really. As to the evidence of his statements before he is read his rights (Miranda rights assuming), that is a good question and I'm not sure how that will fly.
  
  As I said, this is a very interesting story, that is really a shift for the administration.
• majorspark

  

  ptown_trojans_1;822745 wrote:It is against U.S. law to support known terrorist programs, so they can try him on that.

  I have now skimmed the indictment. Some of the counts against him are for carrying, using weapons such as an AK-47, grenades, and explosive devices in Somalia and Yemen. I would not enter either of those countries without all of the above and with intent to use them.
  
  Some of the counts allege that a weapons deal occurred. The deal consisted of small arms and small explosive devices. This dude appears to me to by nothing more than a regional radical and arms broker. There is zero evidence that he was conspiring to attack the US or it direct interests. The indictment brings forth no such accusation.
  
  It does mention several times conspiracy with a US national. Likely the link that the feds are using to bind him under US jurisdiction. Otherwise 3/4 of the citizens of Gaza could be up for grabs for supporting Hamas. The US national no doubt is an operative of the US government. I will wait to till the facts come in to pass final judgment but this guy is likely a small beans local operative cast on the alter of American politics to appease the left clamoring for civilian trials.
  
  I argued before Khalid shaikh Mohammed tried in our civilian justice system would have to be acquitted. For him to be found guilty in civilian court our civilian justice system would have been undermined. Unless KSM miraculously confessed to all crimes while under civilian jurisdiction and informed of his rights under it. Obama eventually realized this and pulled back to avoid that risk.
  
  Like I said before the waters get murky when you try to combine military law with civilian law. I would argue the two are oil and water and incompatible.
• majorspark

  

  FYI. US state terrorist list.
  
  Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
  Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
  Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMS)
  Al-Shabaab
  Ansar al-Islam (AAI)
  Asbat al-Ansar
  Aum Shinrikyo (AUM)
  Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
  Communist Party of the Philippines/New People's Army (CPP/NPA)
  Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
  Gama’a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group)
  HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)
  Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B)
  Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
  Hizballah (Party of God)
  Islamic Jihad Union (IJU)
  Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
  Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) (Army of Mohammed)
  Jemaah Islamiya organization (JI)
  Kahane Chai (Kach)
  Kata'ib Hizballah (KH)
  Kongra-Gel (KGK, formerly Kurdistan Workers' Party, PKK, KADEK)
  Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous)
  Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)
  Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
  Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)
  Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (GICM)
  Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK)
  National Liberation Army (ELN)
  Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
  Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
  Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
  PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC)
  al-Qaida in Iraq (AQI)
  al-Qa’ida (AQ)
  al-Qa'ida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP)
  al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb (formerly GSPC)
  Real IRA (RIRA)
  Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
  Revolutionary Organization 17 November (17N)
  Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
  Revolutionary Struggle (RS)
  Shining Path (Sendero Luminoso, SL)
  United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)
  Harakat-ul Jihad Islami (HUJI)
  Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan (TTP)
  Jundallah
  Army of Islam (AOI)
  
  
  http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm
• Devils Advocate

  

  You forgot the Democrat party.
• believer

  

  Devils Advocate;823315 wrote:You forgot the Democrat party.

  I'm shocked the lefties haven't tossed in Sara Palin and the Tea Party.
• coyotes22

  

  believer;823359 wrote:I'm shocked the lefties haven't tossed in Sara Palin and the Tea Party.

  
  Thats a different list, you wont see.