WI Collective Barganing Law Upheld by State SC

• Con_Alma

  derek bomar;807476 wrote:that's not the point i was making

  ...yet it's the only point that matters whether there's a Republican or Democrat in the White House.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  derek bomar;807476 wrote:that's not the point i was making

  
  Then don't post a graphic where the Bush tax cuts are the biggest (or next to biggest) factor in the deficit.
• Glory Days

  

  fan_from_texas;807413 wrote:So are you arguing that we should continue to overspend because that's what we've done for a long time?

  no, just disagree with the knee jerk reaction and drastic changes.
  

  They can quit and go elsewhere, which is, you know, how people in the private sector exercise their voice.

  is it? private sector lawsuits against employers are higher than ever. and maybe this should have quit and joined the public sector if its that good.[/quote]
  
  

  "Only"? You realize that people who aren't in the public sector by definition are comprised of literally everyone else? So you're admitting that your benefits are perceived as runaway by everyone else, and this is your argument that they're not runaway?

  
  well, that would be true if there werent private sector people in support of repealing SB5.
• QuakerOats

  Glory Days;807650 wrote:no, just disagree with the knee jerk reaction and drastic changes.
  QUOTE]
  
  Where were you in 1983 when the liberal governor and his democrat union-machine legislators rammed collective bargaining down the throats of Ohio taxpayers. That was a drastic change that has bankrupted the state, cities and school districts in just 25 years. Get in the game.

• mrtinkertrain

  Senate Bill 5 was an idea with good point's but Kasich went WAY to far to quickly. It will be voted down in November and it won't be particularly close imo.
• derek bomar

  

  Writerbuckeye;807616 wrote:Then don't post a graphic where the Bush tax cuts are the biggest (or next to biggest) factor in the deficit.

  
  why? you posted a similar graphic without any substance
• queencitybuckeye

  Glory Days;807650 wrote: private sector lawsuits against employers are higher than ever.

  
  
  
  
  Have a cite to back this up?
• Glory Days

  

  queencitybuckeye;807771 wrote:Have a cite to back this up?

  
  I posted this a while ago, sorry.
  
  http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/04/_employee_lawsuits_a_bigger_part_of_modern_american_workplace.html
• queencitybuckeye

  Glory Days;808498 wrote:I posted this a while ago, sorry.
  
  http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/04/_employee_lawsuits_a_bigger_part_of_modern_american_workplace.html

  
  Thank you.
• dwccrew

  

  Writerbuckeye;807456 wrote:There we go again...it's all the fault of the Bush tax cuts.
  
  How ridiculously stupid.
  
  The people's money does NOT belong to the government. If the government decides to REDUCE the amount that it is taking from people, then it should, if needed, also REDUCE the amount of spending its doing.
  
  This has always been, is now, and always and forever will be a SPENDING problem, not an income problem.
  
  Government does not have a right to keep spending when its income goes down -- why do people act like it does?

  
  
  While I agree with you that the people's money doesn't belong to the government; the one big beef I do have with Bush is that while cutting taxes he ran large deficits. If he was going to cut taxes he should have cut spending as well. He just signed any old spending bill that came acrossed his desk.
• believer

  

  dwccrew;809506 wrote:While I agree with you that the people's money doesn't belong to the government; the one big beef I do have with Bush is that while cutting taxes he ran large deficits. If he was going to cut taxes he should have cut spending as well. He just signed any old spending bill that came acrossed his desk.

  I agree with this as well. In all fairness, everyone bitches about Bush's massive spending particularly the last 2 years of his administration, yet Congress controls the purse strings. Which party controlled Capitol Hill in Bush's last 2 years in office and wrote the bills that crossed Bush's desk?
  
  We lament at the lack of bipartisanship in DC. Seems like this was a bipartisan effort in my opinion.
• QuakerOats

  mrtinkertrain;807767 wrote:Senate Bill 5 was an idea with good point's but Kasich went WAY to far to quickly. It will be voted down in November and it won't be particularly close imo.

  
  Actually, it probably doesn't go far enough, but it is a solid step in the right direction. Once all likely voters (who pay an average of 23% to their insurance) discover that their public sector counterparts only pay 9%, in addition to ridiculous amounts of time off and accrued 'sick pay' etc....etc... then SB5 will be largely supported.
• dwccrew

  

  believer;809518 wrote:I agree with this as well. In all fairness, everyone bitches about Bush's massive spending particularly the last 2 years of his administration, yet Congress controls the purse strings. Which party controlled Capitol Hill in Bush's last 2 years in office and wrote the bills that crossed Bush's desk?
  
  We lament at the lack of bipartisanship in DC. Seems like this was a bipartisan effort in my opinion.

  This was a case in which it shouldn't have been a bipartisan effort. He should have vetoed the shit out of those bills, instead, he gave speeches supporting them.
  
  I am no Bush hater, I voted for him twice, I just think that he did an awful job in that second term.
• believer

  

  dwccrew;810924 wrote:This was a case in which it shouldn't have been a bipartisan effort.

  agreed
  

  dwccrew;810924 wrote:He should have vetoed the shit out of those bills, instead, he gave speeches supporting them.

  Without a doubt. This was the largest beef I had with Bush. In fact long before Obama hit the WH I was very vocal about my displeasure with Bush when he rubber stamped everything that crossed his desk.
  

  dwccrew;810924 wrote:I am no Bush hater, I voted for him twice, I just think that he did an awful job in that second term.

  True, but I'd give almost anything to have Bush back in the WH compared to what we now enjoy.
• QuakerOats

  public sector unions lose (again) in WI:
  
  http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/elections/article_0eab6966-c2a9-11e0-a206-001cc4c03286.html
• Writerbuckeye

  

  What was interesting was the comment by one of the voters that the ads didn't focus on the issue itself (public unions) but were basically anti-Republican.
  
  The reason seems simple: when they tried running on the issue (the Supreme Court race), they lost handily, so they had to make it more of a referendum on Republicans than whether public unions were good for the state.
• QuakerOats

  You mean ..... Interesting and hopeful !! Republicans having to do the dirty work of cleaning up liberal democrat largess of the past several decades -- never easy, but somebody has to do it or we lose the country.
  
  
  "Democrats failed late Tuesday in their effort to gain control of the Wisconsin state senate as Republican incumbents won four of six recall elections.
  
  The outcome was a big setback for Democrats, organized labor, and progressive groups who'd sought retribution against six GOP allies of Gov. Scott Walker, who earlier this year enacted a labor law overhaul that ended collective bargaining rights for many public sector workers."
  
  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44075969/ns/politics-more_politics?gt1=43001
• jhay78

  

  QuakerOats;857344 wrote:You mean ..... Interesting and hopeful !! Republicans having to do the dirty work of cleaning up liberal democrat largess of the past several decades -- never easy, but somebody has to do it or we lose the country.
  
  
  "Democrats failed late Tuesday in their effort to gain control of the Wisconsin state senate as Republican incumbents won four of six recall elections.
  
  The outcome was a big setback for Democrats, organized labor, and progressive groups who'd sought retribution against six GOP allies of Gov. Scott Walker, who earlier this year enacted a labor law overhaul that ended collective bargaining rights for many public sector workers."
  
  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44075969/ns/politics-more_politics?gt1=43001

  
  Make no mistake about it- Wisconsin was Ground Zero for the national Big Unions vs. responsible government debate. National unions spent tens of millions in these recall elections and basically got rid of A) a Republican who allegedly cheated on his wife with a staffer and B) a Republican in a heavy Democrat district carried in '08 by Obama by 20 points.
  
  Not exactly turning the world upside down.
• QuakerOats

  And next week the two democrats are up for recall, for fleeing the state instead of governing, and one of them only won by a razor last time, so the party of responsible government will probably pick up a seat.
• jhay78

  

  Shocker: Wisconsin school districts are saving teachers' jobs, and are coming in under budget. If only Gov. Walker's plan had failed, then the unions would've gotten the deficits, job cuts, and continued mediocrity and misery they were looking for . . .
  
  http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/274360/wisconsins-reforms-are-already-working-christian-schneider
  

  Earlier this week, the Chicago Bears’ all-pro defensive end Julius Peppers was asked whether his eight quarterback sacks last year were a disappointment. With a rejoinder worthy of Yogi Berra, Peppers answered, “I don’t like to put a number on stats.”
  
  Wisconsin governor Scott Walker’s critics are also loath to put numbers on stats — numbers that show his public-sector collective-bargaining reforms are benefiting the state. Wisconsin is replete with examples of cities and school districts that are reforming their finances to finally balance their books — and doing it without significant cuts to services.
  
  Recently, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel noted that under Walker’s plan to require greater health-care and pension contributions from government employees, the City of Milwaukee actually comes out $11 million ahead — contravening Mayor Tom Barrett’s March prediction that Walker’s budget “just makes our structural deficit explode.” Barrett, who lost to Walker in the 2010 Wisconsin gubernatorial election, refuses to give the governor any credit for helping him balance his city’s books, instead complaining that Walker’s plan to curb collective bargaining went too far.
  
  Yet many governments are putting the collective-bargaining rollback to good use. In suburban Milwaukee, the Brown Deer school district is implementing a plan to allow performance pay for its best teachers. “No Wisconsin public-school district has ever had the opportunity in any of our lifetimes to even think about these things,” said Brown Deer Public Schools finance director Emily Koczela in an interview with a local television station. “We’re looking at understanding what effective teaching is, how to measure it in the children’s point of view, and how to reward teachers that consistently turn in a performance that’s better than the norm,” added Koczela.
  
  In Appleton, the collective-bargaining reforms allowed the school district there to save $3 million by bidding for health care on the open market. Previously, the district had been required to purchase health insurance from WEA Trust, which is affiliated with the state’s largest teachers’ union. When the Appleton School District put their health-insurance contract up for bid, WEA Trust magically lowered their rates, saying they would match any competitor’s price — a sign they had been fleecing local taxpayers for years.
  Other governments are implementing similar reforms. In Manitowoc, County Executive Bob Ziegelbauer altered overtime procedures for county employees, saving taxpayers $100,000. After dealing with a $400,000 deficit last year, the Kaukauna School District expects to see a $1.5 million surplus once they implement performance pay and benefit reforms.
  
  In February, if you had told a public-school teacher that Walker’s reforms were actually a job-retention program, they would have looked at you as if you’d just tried to stuff a live lobster down your pants. But all over the state, teacher jobs are being spared due to the increased benefit requirements in Walker’s plan. The Wauwatosa School District, facing a $6.5 million shortfall, anticipated needing to cut 100 teacher jobs — yet they were able to spare those teachers through shared sacrifice. “When students come to school in the fall, they’re going to see the same things, have the same teachers, and they’re going to see new things as well,” said Wauwatosa School District board member Phil Kroner upon passage of next year’s district budget.
  
  Of course, Walker’s critics would rather not put a number on these statistics. During their recent failed attempt to take over control of the Wisconsin state senate through recall elections, Democrats and their union allies completely scrapped any mention of collective bargaining in their television ads. Mentioning the new union law would mean alerting voters to the plan’s successes. Instead, unions hoped voters would gobble up myriad scandalous ephemera. It didn’t work — Republicans won four seats, Democrats two, leaving the state senate in GOP hands.
  
  In the end, statistics do matter. And in a year when Wisconsin is leading the nation in government innovation, it also makes sense that the state is home to the one statistic that should matter to Julius Peppers: Green Bay boasts one defending Super Bowl trophy.

• Writerbuckeye

  

  Teachers union hacks will take bigger pay checks for those who have more seniority and cutting staff over less pay and everyone staying employed -- every time. Otherwise, why would they fight tooth and nail against reforms that actually save jobs?
• believer

  

  Writerbuckeye;859112 wrote:Teachers union hacks will take bigger pay checks for those who have more seniority and cutting staff over less pay and everyone staying employed -- every time. Otherwise, why would they fight tooth and nail against reforms that actually save jobs?

  While unions talk out one side of their mouths about "saving jobs" their real goal is self-preservation.
  
  They will fight tooth and nail to protect seniority because their older members are deeply entrenched in unionist philosophies and do not mind coughing up union dues as long as the bargaining unit protects them from performance scrutiny.
  
  It's never about putting out a good product. It's always about inflated pension programs, political power, and money.
• QuakerOats

  believer;859630 wrote:It's never about putting out a good product. It's always about inflated pension programs, political power, and money.

  
  
  ..... and holding hostage the good teachers who can see through the liberal union-machine scam. Time for a revolt among the rank & file to decertify and move forward for the sake of the kids and the country.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  I don't understand why states like Ohio don't try to become at-will states so it won't matter if unions are there. People can then decide for themselves if they want to support the unions without being coerced into paying dues even if they're opposed.
• QuakerOats

  Writerbuckeye;859845 wrote:I don't understand why states like Ohio don't try to become at-will states so it won't matter if unions are there. People can then decide for themselves if they want to support the unions without being coerced into paying dues even if they're opposed.

  
  Coming soon to a theater near you .......