Can Atheists Go To Heaven?

• FatHobbit

  

  Thread Bomber;751514 wrote:the fact remains : It all had to start somewhere.

  
  Why did it have to start somewhere? Assuming it did start, then what happened before? Nothing? That seems just as odd to me.
• Heretic

  

  Skyhook79;750654 wrote:"But if you take it like a good little abused spouse ("god beats me because he loves me")...hey, you'll be rewarded in the afterlife!"
  
  
  Maybe you should re read the first 2 Chapters of Job, It wasn't God who inflicted Job with problems it was Satan.
  
  
  
  "Wait a minute...what kind of dick would order someone to kill their kid as a sign of loyalty?!"
  
  
  The same God that sent his own son to die for you ,me and everyone.
  
  
  "And then, after being a tireless servant of god for forever, got condemned to not reach the promised land because he lost his temper in a moment of frustration. Firing loyal, long-time employees to show everyone that no one's position is safe = great PR move!"
  
  
  God didn't let Moses see the promised land because he lost his temper, Moses directly dis -obeyed a command from God.

  
  1. Kinda semi-correct. God and Satan made the bet, God withheld his protection from Job so Satan could destroy his life to see if he'd denounce God. While God didn't PERSONALLY do anything evil to Job, he allowed (and, one could say, encouraged) it all to happen for the purposes of his bet.
  
  2. An interesting "parallel". If you take scriptures at face value, one case would be a deity sacrificing their son in order to save the world. The other would be a man planning to sacrifice his son in order to....uh....cuz God sez so!
  
  3. Here's how I look at that whole Moses deal. Moses was the right-hand man of God through a hell of a lot. He "infiltrated" Egyptian society, forced Pharaoh's hand, led the people out and took them through a super-long trek. God provided the miracle power, while Moses handled the day-to-day stuff, which included listening to virtually every other person bitch about everything and, at times, openly rebel. And then he gets pissed off one day, disobeys something and is cursed to not reach the promised land. That'd be like if you were a loyal, valued, essential employee at a profitable business...and then, three days before you were set to retire after 50 years, you get fired for not putting the toilet seat down after using the restroom.
• Bigred1995

  

  Heretic;753104 wrote: That'd be like if you were a loyal, valued, essential employee at a profitable business...and then, three days before you were set to retire after 50 years, you get fired for not putting the toilet seat down after using the restroom.

  Female run business? Hell, who am I kidding, it wouldn't be a profitable one then, now would it?
• WebFire

  FatHobbit;753099 wrote:Why did it have to start somewhere? Assuming it did start, then what happened before? Nothing? That seems just as odd to me.

  
  Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
• Bigred1995

  

  WebFire;753141 wrote:Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

  The egg! Chickens weren't always chickens and evolved from a species that hatched from eggs (if you go back far enough dinosaurs), so the egg came before the chicken.
• tcarrier32

  

  Skyhook79;752679 wrote:Matthew 7: 13,14 says different. “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. “
  
  
  Very few people are going to make it. It’s the unfortunate reality and hard to accept but it’s our thinking that needs to conform to the Bible, not the other way around. Our view of the world has changed that has led to the thinking of multiple paths to God and a distortion of what authentic Christianity is.
  It’s not popular to think that a good person could go to Hell. Our culture is about being inclusive and accepting of everything and every one and those beliefs and ideas are getting stronger every day. Those ideas are changing. Scripture is not.
  And anyone, absolutely any single person can choose Christ. No one is being kept out but by their own beliefs and ideas. It’s not exclusive in the sense that only a certain group of people can ever be saved. It’s open to anyone to receive it, but it means walking away from worldly thinking and worldly ideas.

  
  You're assuming that your sect of Christianity is correct. Quoting your holy book in no way, shape, or form has any effect on its truth value. Anecdotal evidence of your belief also does not effect the truth value of your religion. Knowing someone would reply in the way that you did is why I added the second part of my post
  
  What I am saying, again, is that the only God I would care to "worship" (its hilarious a loving person would make you worship them) is one that is omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly good.
• WebFire

  FatHobbit;753099 wrote:Why did it have to start somewhere? Assuming it did start, then what happened before? Nothing? That seems just as odd to me.

  
  The thing about this, the human mind can only comprehend so much. I think our thoughts on time are limited. It's hard for us to imagine that time is endless and didn't have a beginning. But if you really think about it, it's hard to imagine there could be a beginning. Because no matter what we think came first, something had to "make" that. So how could there be a beginning.
• Skyhook79

  

  "What I am saying, again, is that the only God I would care to "worship" (its hilarious a loving person would make you worship them) is one that is omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly good."
  
  
  God is the Great I am. Also you make it sound like you are choosing God when in fact God chooses us not the other way around. John 15:16. "You have not chosen me but I have chosen You."
  God chose each of us, but we have free will to accept or reject God. If we choose to accept God, that is a choice and in that respect we have chosen God over any other alternative. If we reject God, then we have chosen an alternate god whether that be ourselves, money, science, fashion, magik, witchcraft, satanism, or any other deity we choose to adopt.
  And Yes I am saying that the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob is the God I believe in and serve and the Bible is God breathed and correct.
• Footwedge

  I really doubt atheists go to heaven. I believe in God and I'm not all that sure if I'm heading north for that matter either. We live collectively and individually in a despicable, decadant society, which we ourselves have created. Let's be honest here folks.
• tcarrier32

  

  Skyhook79;753191 wrote:"What I am saying, again, is that the only God I would care to "worship" (its hilarious a loving person would make you worship them) is one that is omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly good."
  
  
  God is the Great I am. Also you make it sound like you are choosing God when in fact God chooses us not the other way around. John 15:16. "You have not chosen me but I have chosen You."
  God chose each of us, but we have free will to accept or reject God. If we choose to accept God, that is a choice and in that respect we have chosen God over any other alternative. If we reject God, then we have chosen an alternate god whether that be ourselves, money, science, fashion, magik, witchcraft, satanism, or any other deity we choose to adopt.
  And Yes I am saying that the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob is the God I believe in and serve and the Bible is God breathed and correct.

  
  [video=youtube;WmHDiJHxEic][/video]
• I Wear Pants

  Skyhook79;752679 wrote:Matthew 7: 13,14 says different. “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. “
  
  
  Very few people are going to make it. It’s the unfortunate reality and hard to accept but it’s our thinking that needs to conform to the Bible, not the other way around. Our view of the world has changed that has led to the thinking of multiple paths to God and a distortion of what authentic Christianity is.
  It’s not popular to think that a good person could go to Hell. Our culture is about being inclusive and accepting of everything and every one and those beliefs and ideas are getting stronger every day. Those ideas are changing. Scripture is not.
  And anyone, absolutely any single person can choose Christ. No one is being kept out but by their own beliefs and ideas. It’s not exclusive in the sense that only a certain group of people can ever be saved. It’s open to anyone to receive it, but it means walking away from worldly thinking and worldly ideas.

  
  Lol @quoting the Bible and acting like it means anything. The Bible has long been distorted by man and that's assuming it started with pure truth which is quite difficult to say.
  
  And "authentic Christianity" you've got to be kidding me.
• I Wear Pants

  WebFire;753174 wrote:The thing about this, the human mind can only comprehend so much. I think our thoughts on time are limited. It's hard for us to imagine that time is endless and didn't have a beginning. But if you really think about it, it's hard to imagine there could be a beginning. Because no matter what we think came first, something had to "make" that. So how could there be a beginning.

  It's not that we can't comprehend it, it's that we just don't know at all. It'd be like sticking a calculus book written in ancient egyptian in front of an American 9 year old and expecting him to be able to even grasp what it means. Now given time and the right language learning and math skills he may be able to begin to work out what it means. It's not that he is incapable of ever understanding it he just can't then because he has no knowledge to make intuitive leaps from on the subjects.
• WebFire

  I Wear Pants;755642 wrote:It's not that we can't comprehend it, it's that we just don't know at all. It'd be like sticking a calculus book written in ancient egyptian in front of an American 9 year old and expecting him to be able to even grasp what it means. Now given time and the right language learning and math skills he may be able to begin to work out what it means. It's not that he is incapable of ever understanding it he just can't then because he has no knowledge to make intuitive leaps from on the subjects.

  
  I don't disagree, but I really don't think we are capable of comprehending it because it goes beyond how we think of time.
• riders1

  

  it all comes down to faith and beliefs about what God reveals, it doesn't come just by reading it like a newspaper but through revelation not like some cemetary errrr seminary teaches you.
• jmog

  I Wear Pants;755640 wrote:Lol @quoting the Bible and acting like it means anything. The Bible has long been distorted by man and that's assuming it started with pure truth which is quite difficult to say.
  
  And "authentic Christianity" you've got to be kidding me.

  
  Do you have proof that the actual words in the Bible have been distorted by man or is that your opinion.
  
  I do agree that men have distorted views/understandings of what the Bible means or is saying. But I would like to see proof that the actual words have been "distorted" from the original text.
• WebFire

  jmog;757076 wrote:Do you have proof that the actual words in the Bible have been distorted by man or is that your opinion.
  
  I do agree that men have distorted views/understandings of what the Bible means or is saying. But I would like to see proof that the actual words have been "distorted" from the original text.

  
  You want proof that the Bible is distorted? How do we have any proof of anything related to the Bible to begin with?
• Y-Town Steelhound

  

  jmog;757076 wrote:Do you have proof that the actual words in the Bible have been distorted by man or is that your opinion.
  
  I do agree that men have distorted views/understandings of what the Bible means or is saying. But I would like to see proof that the actual words have been "distorted" from the original text.

  
  There are a number of books and gospels that were taken out of the Bible. That alone proves that there has been distortion. The church picked and chose what to put in there
• Skyhook79

  

  Y-Town Steelhound;757082 wrote:There are a number of books and gospels that were taken out of the Bible. That alone proves that there has been distortion. The church picked and chose what to put in there

  
  Someone must be reading Dan Brown.
• Y-Town Steelhound

  

  Skyhook79;757083 wrote:Someone must be reading Dan Brown.

  
  I'm not saying that Mary Magdalene is the wife of Christ/"cup" or whatever. All I'm saying is that there are books and gospels not included in the bible for whatever reason. That is not an opinion, that is fact.
• Bigred1995

  

  Y-Town Steelhound;757085 wrote:I'm not saying that Mary Magdalene is the wife of Christ/"cup" or whatever. All I'm saying is that there are books and gospels not included in the bible for whatever reason. That is not an opinion, that is fact.

  Yes, there are cannons that were not included in the Bible, but the ones that were included were done so with the inspiration of the all mighty god!
  
  I just thought I'd get that out of the way, because you knew it was coming!
• jmog

  Y-Town Steelhound;757082 wrote:There are a number of books and gospels that were taken out of the Bible. That alone proves that there has been distortion. The church picked and chose what to put in there

  
  They were not taken out, get your facts straight and not what you read in a Dan Brown book (fyi, I love his books, but his fiction does not equal fact).
  
  I could write a "gospel" right now, bury it in the ground, call it the "Gospel of Simon Peter". If that never got included in the Bible, would it be a group of people removing "gospels" from the Bible and distorting it? No, it would be a group of people validating or refuting a document as authentic or not.
  
  
  That's what the Council of Nicea did, they validated which "gospels" were authentic and which were not.
• Skyhook79

  

  "I could write a "gospel" right now, bury it in the ground, call it the "Gospel of Simon Peter".
  
  
  Those silly Gnostics.
• Bigred1995

  

  jmog;757127 wrote:They were not taken out, get your facts straight and not what you read in a Dan Brown book (fyi, I love his books, but his fiction does not equal fact).
  
  I could write a "gospel" right now, bury it in the ground, call it the "Gospel of Simon Peter". If that never got included in the Bible, would it be a group of people removing "gospels" from the Bible and distorting it? No, it would be a group of people validating or refuting a document as authentic or not.
  
  
  That's what the Council of Nicea did, they validated which "gospels" were authentic and which were not.

  
  I would argue that the Council of Nicaea didn't validate which cannons were authentic as much as they validated which ones were relevant. There were several cannons that were viewed as authentic, but weren't included because they weren't viewed as relevant. The on in particular I remember talking about in class (sorry, but I cant remember the name)was the one of Jesus as a child.
• Skyhook79

  

  Bigred1995;757240 wrote:I would argue that the Council of Nicaea didn't validate which cannons were authentic as much as they validated which ones were relevant. There were several cannons that were viewed as authentic, but weren't included because they weren't viewed as relevant. The on in particular I remember talking about in class (sorry, but I cant remember the name)was the one of Jesus as a child.

  Probally thinking of the infancy gospel of Thomas, it had some real interesting "stories"
• jmog

  Skyhook79;757325 wrote:Probally thinking of the infancy gospel of Thomas, it had some real interesting "stories"

  
  I've read the Gospel of Thomas, and it is interesting.
  
  However, I still assert that at least a great portion of the 'gospels' left out by the Council of Nicea were based on authenticity and only a few omissions were based on "relevance".