Defenders of Democracy

• Bigdogg

  This is a Grass Roots Group that joined together to oppose legislation and candidates that threaten or weaken the middle and working class of Ohio. Rally to Save the Middle Class
  
  Time: Saturday, March 12 · 12:00pm – 3:00pm
  Location: Ohio Statehouse Columbus
  
  We are rallying against SB 5 on Saturday, March 12 at 12:00. The House is expected to vote on SB 5 that following week. If we unite in opposition at the Statehouse we may be able to stop this bill. We almost stopped it in the Senate, SB 5 passed by a 17-16 vote.
  
  http://www.defendersofdemocracy.us/about-us/
• Skyhook79

  

  There is already a group that does this. They were very effective by the results of the 2010 election results.
• Con_Alma

  What democracy are they defending? We have never had a democracy in this State or Country.
• tsst_fballfan

  

  Laughable! This is a union backed wolf attempting to wear a bag of wool.
• QuakerOats

  Actually appears to be 'Defenders of Collectivism' ..... a far cry from what we are supposed to be about. But as Ben Franklin said, 'we have a republic, as long as we can keep it'. Maybe our time is up.
  
  
  http://www.americanexperiment.org/pu...50915yecke.php
  
  http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=21469 (5 short videos, all worth a watch)
  
  http://www.braincrave.com/viewblog.php?id=383
  
  http://www.kogagrove.org/sams/libertyvcollectivism.html
• O-Trap

  

  Damn. I clicked this thread hoping that a group called "Defenders of Democracy" was actually a group protecting the democracy elements of our nation.
  
  What I WASN'T looking for was a hissy fit blog that was started less than a week and a half ago by a lawyer from Ravenna. Calling this group a "grassroots movement" is a bit disingenuous, as it's, at most, a couple people who just got together to protest something.
• queencitybuckeye

  There will be a rally? Looks to me that it was three days ago.
• O-Trap

  

  queencitybuckeye;707439 wrote:There will be a rally? Looks to me that it was three days ago.

  Blog apparently isn't updated regularly.
• fish82

  

  Bigdogg;707298 wrote:This is a Grass Roots Group that joined together to oppose legislation and candidates that threaten or weaken the middle and working class of Ohio. There will be a rally in Columbus on Tuesday March 8th- During Kasich’s State of the State
  
  Time: Tuesday, March 8 · 11:00am – 5:00pm
  
  Location: Ohio Statehouse
  
  
  
  http://www.defendersofdemocracy.us/about-us/

  I wanted to go to this, but my Flux Capacitor is on the blink again.
• Bigdogg

  Sorry, fixed it if you want to attend.
• Fab4Runner

  

  I like all of the references to destroying the middle class. I know a lot of people in the middle class that support the bill. My family is middle class and it's not going to destroy us. It will actually help us if/when the Ohio budget is balanced.
• O-Trap

  

  My wife and I are middle class. She's even a teacher.
  
  We're both strongly in support of doing away with collective bargaining, and would possibly be for doing away with much of what unions have become.
• queencitybuckeye

  Bigdogg;707499 wrote:Sorry, fixed it if you want to attend.

  
  Yeah, it's going to draw people by the tens. Wouldn't miss it for the world.
• O-Trap

  

  queencitybuckeye;707536 wrote:Yeah, it's going to draw people by the tens. Wouldn't miss it for the world.

  You're being generous.
• Belly35

  

  Can we carry guns like at the Tea Party Events?
• Bigdogg

  Fab4Runner;707520 wrote:I like all of the references to destroying the middle class. I know a lot of people in the middle class that support the bill. My family is middle class and it's not going to destroy us. It will actually help us if/when the Ohio budget is balanced.

  
  You seem like a nice kid. I am glad that you have been stepping out of the other forums and venturing into here. I disagree with your analysis. My first job out of college was in the public sector before collective barging was law. I made $1.19 over minimum wage working in children services in Lima. We had twice the caseload that was recommended (120 kids) and bad insurance. When I left after a year I was 2nd in seniority out of twenty caseworkers. We signed the first union contract ever in my apartment that got us a .50 hour raise. That's my experience, too bad most of the people on here have no history or they would not be so gun ho about eliminating it. Saying it will solve and balance the budget is naive. There are other states that do not have CB and they are in as bad or worse shape as Ohio.
  
  The fact is CB needs reformed. The benefits are way out of whack and binding arbitration is too tilted to labor. Those things can and should be fixed. It is also a fact that eliminating collective bargaining will not have any budget implications for this budget cycle. The Republicans are voting on SB 5 and there is not one projection of any current or future savings at all. Nobody has presented any valid reason at all why people employed in the public sector should be precluded from choosing to be represented collectively as they are in the private sector.
  
  It is also a fact that gap between the richest and the rest of the people in the United States is getting larger and larger. The middle class is disappearing and I am very concerned that there are way too many people who have no idea what is happening before their very eyes. i hope you wake up before it's too late for you or your future children.
• O-Trap

  

  Bigdogg;708000 wrote:You seem like a nice kid. I am glad that you have been stepping out of the other forums and venturing into here. I disagree with your analysis. My first job out of college was in the public sector before collective barging was law. I made $1.19 over minimum wage working in children services in Lima. We had twice the caseload that was recommended (120 kids) and bad insurance. When I left after a year I was 2nd in seniority out of twenty caseworkers. We signed the first union contract ever in my apartment that got us a .50 hour raise. That's my experience, too bad most of the people on here have no history or they would not be so gun ho about eliminating it. Saying it will solve and balance the budget is naive. There are other states that do not have CB and they are in as bad or worse shape as Ohio.
  
  The fact is CB needs reformed. The benefits are way out of whack and binding arbitration is too tilted to labor. Those things can and should be fixed. It is also a fact that eliminating collective bargaining will not have any budget implications for this budget cycle. The Republicans are voting on SB 5 and there is not one projection of any current or future savings at all. Nobody has presented any valid reason at all why people employed in the public sector should be precluded from choosing to be represented collectively as they are in the private sector.
  
  It is also a fact that gap between the richest and the rest of the people in the United States is getting larger and larger. The middle class is disappearing and I am very concerned that there are way too many people who have no idea what is happening before their very eyes. i hope you wake up before it's too late for you or your future children.

  
  What I bolded is the reason why private companies do what they can to make jobs appealing: turnover.
  
  Turnover is more expensive and less productive than paying a better wage for a long-term employee. Thus, with a limited budget, it's simply more economical to senior management to offer as competitive a compensatory package as high as can be afforded under the budget to keep long-term employees. Trying to force employees to live on dirt doesn't work, and any company that tries to do that (except if they're employing high school students) is going to suffer from high turnover and a stark decrease in productivity.
  
  If the company tries to jip the employees, the company is the one that loses ... and companies know that.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  I love how doggie and his ilk play with the numbers that represent the "middle class" in America. Fast is, everybody has been shifting forward for the past 100 years -- by quite a bit.
  
  The poor used to be REALLY poor in this country. Now they have cell phones, TVs, cars and a lot of other amenities that even the rich have. But they're still technically considered poor because they make less than everyone else. However, their QUALITY OF LIFE isn't much worse than almost anyone else in the US and MUCH better than the poor in 2/3rds of the world's countries.
  
  What used to be the middle class, by dollar definition, has now shifted up and is considered "wealthy" by people like doggie, even though when you REALLY look at the incomes and costs of living, they are clearly middle class folks.
  
  It's been talked on here a lot, and a couple making $200,000 in a place like NYC are NOT wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but they sure aren't considered middle class by liberals trying to sell us the bunk about how everyone not "rich" is worse off now than we used to be.
• O-Trap

  

  For what it's worth, I'm probably considered upper-lower or lower-middle, and I stand by my view.
• QuakerOats

  Writerbuckeye;708166 wrote:I love how doggie and his ilk play with the numbers that represent the "middle class" in America. Fast is, everybody has been shifting forward for the past 100 years -- by quite a bit.
  
  The poor used to be REALLY poor in this country. Now they have cell phones, TVs, cars and a lot of other amenities that even the rich have. But they're still technically considered poor because they make less than everyone else. However, their QUALITY OF LIFE isn't much worse than almost anyone else in the US and MUCH better than the poor in 2/3rds of the world's countries.

  
  
  By all (liberal) accounts, the poor have been getting poorer for soo long, they should have become extinct by now.
  
  I wish they would get a new line.
• queencitybuckeye

  So did anyone show up for this slapdick-palooza?
• CenterBHSFan

  

  bigdogg's zealoutry is something to behold!
• Little Danny

  

  What makes one "middle class"? I see the term thrown around a lot, particularly by the left and all of the people who rallied on the statehouse in opposition to SB 5. What's more, who are "working people"?
  
  I live in Ohio, and I have a household income of $185K. Am I middle class or am I rich? Oh, I should mention I am not a member of a union and I work for an "EVIL" Insurance Company (HAHA). Am I a working person?
  
  By comparison, my father works for UPS in their airline division. He is in a private sector union (Teamsters). He brings home approx. $125K a year and coupled with my mom's salary they bring in around $150K. Middle Class? Working people?
  
  Btw, the United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy!
• believer

  

  Little Danny;709552 wrote:What makes one "middle class"? I see the term thrown around a lot, particularly by the left and all of the people who rallied on the statehouse in opposition to SB 5. What's more, who are "working people"?

  From a leftist's point of view middle class are educated white collared folks with family incomes less than $200,000. Working class folks are high school or less educated folks with family incomes $50,000 or less. Rich are people with family incomes over $200,000. These eeeevil rich bastards need to be taxed, quartered, and castrated and not necessarily in that order.
• Bigdogg

  queencitybuckeye;709514 wrote:So did anyone show up for this slapdick-palooza?

  
  So when one makes fun of the Tea Party on here you get blasted but it is OK to spout away at the Defenders of Democracy? I suggest if you do not support the cause don't post on the thread. I doubt if many care on here about this group, but I was curious how many of you are hypocrites. I guess you were the first "volunteer" Queenie.