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Public Goods/Public Services

  • ernest_t_bass
    OK, the SB5 and education/firefighting/police dept. talk has got me thinking...

    SB5 aside. This is NOT the place to argue why or why not SB5 is an effective way. Regardless of your thoughts on it, please refer to the other thread:

    http://www.ohiochatter.com/forum/threads/22949-Senate-Bill-5-Targets-Collective-Bargaining-for-Elimination!

    With that being said. We have A LOT of public goods, public services, safety net/entitlement programs where our tax dollars go to provide. We have a HUGE deficit in this state. What do you do to reform our debt.

    (If you want to say SB5, just say it, but no need to argue your point).
  • sleeper
    SB5 is only the beginning. Although, I must admit, I don't really following Ohio's budget issues, how fucked are we?
  • FatHobbit
    sleeper;691031 wrote:SB5 is only the beginning. Although, I must admit, I don't really following Ohio's budget issues, how fucked are we?

    We are apparently $8 billion short.

    this thread had a neat tool so you can try to balance the budget and see what the headlines would be. (who would cry the most when you cut their funding)
    http://www.ohiochatter.com/forum/threads/23010-Can-you-balance-the-state-budget
  • Con_Alma
    The people of the great State of Ohio choose through a variety of sources exactly how much they are willing to provide for public services. We must provide as much and as efficiently as possible the most amount that the available funds can facilitate; not any more!

    Cuts must be made.

    I don't view SB5 as a means of cutting or balancing the budget at all. SB5 in my view is simply a move that's long overdue for the simple purpose that we owe the best in these effected fields to be treated like professionals as opposed to sweat shop laborers. This bill affords them that ability.
  • ernest_t_bass
    Con_Alma;691167 wrote:The people of the great State of Ohio choose through a variety of sources exactly how much they are willing to provide for public services. We must provide as much and as efficiently as possible the most amount that the available funds can facilitate; not any more!

    Cuts must be made.

    I don't view SB5 as a means of cutting or balancing the budget at all. SB5 in my view is simply a move that's long overdue for the simply purpose that we owe the best in these effected fields to be treated like professionals as opposed to sweat shop laborers. This bill affords them that ability.

    OK... ASIDE from SB5, what else, specifically?
  • Con_Alma
    The website provided are the only options available. Cutting services and or raising taxes are the only options available.

    http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...get/index.html

    All of them have negative ramifications to different degrees. That's the tough part obviously.

    I would start here.

    Allow oil and gas drilling on state land (raises $25 million)
  • Con_Alma
    ccrunner609;691347 wrote:Stripping public unions arent going to save 2-3%of the state budget. State funds for education is so small, all of think the state funds all the schools. Most school funds are local.


    ...
    I don't think anyone feels this is a budget fix. I also think most people know that local funding is what drives public schools. The State provides less than $6,000 per pupil I believe.
  • dwccrew
    Legalize medicinal marijuana and tax it. Tax revenues would be in the hundreds of millions, if not $1 billion annually. It has really helped stimulate Colorado's economy by increasing tax revenues and creating jobs. All the farm land we have in Ohio, I have to assume it would work.
  • Prescott
    With that being said. We have A LOT of public goods, public services, safety net/entitlement programs where our tax dollars go to provide.
    Privatize whatever possible, starting with the school system.
  • mella
    I would reduce the number of state reps and senators by half. The governor should set the example and take a pay cut to $34,000 and pay for 20% of his healthcare insurance. The reps and senators staffs should be cut in half and they should not have drivers, they are big boys and girls they can drive themselves. I know this is a small amount but every penny counts.

    All in tri-state trips for anybody in a government position should require a car trip, flying is too expensive.

    Remove free and reduced lunches from schools, I'm tired of paying for someones free lunch, literally.

    All fastfood, alcohol, tobacco products, soda, chips, pretzels, cable tv, satellite tv should have a 20% consumption tax. Don't want to pay the tax, don't buy the products.

    Don't ask me to define fastfood, thats for the real smart people that govern us. In public schools food is color coded as eat everyday, once in a while and think twice before you buy that.

    Close the welfare offices, all checks can be direct deposited.

    Close down the jails and prisons, talk about wasting money. Steal something you get a warning, steal something a second time you lose a hand. Same with murder, one warning then straight to a shooting range on the second offense. All soldiers can be trained by shooting at running targets.

    I agree with Prescott, all schools should be private, you get the education that you can afford and if you have graduated high school in the last 10 years you'll be getting a bill from the state.

    Again, I don't have actual numbers on savings, but every penny counts as we close the gap on the $8 billion dollar hole.
  • password
    mella;695389 wrote:I would reduce the number of state reps and senators by half. The governor should set the example and take a pay cut to $34,000 and pay for 20% of his healthcare insurance. The reps and senators staffs should be cut in half and they should not have drivers, they are big boys and girls they can drive themselves. I know this is a small amount but every penny counts.

    All in tri-state trips for anybody in a government position should require a car trip, flying is too expensive.

    Remove free and reduced lunches from schools, I'm tired of paying for someones free lunch, literally.

    All fastfood, alcohol, tobacco products, soda, chips, pretzels, cable tv, satellite tv should have a 20% consumption tax. Don't want to pay the tax, don't buy the products.

    Don't ask me to define fastfood, thats for the real smart people that govern us. In public schools food is color coded as eat everyday, once in a while and think twice before you buy that.

    Close the welfare offices, all checks can be direct deposited.

    Close down the jails and prisons, talk about wasting money. Steal something you get a warning, steal something a second time you lose a hand. Same with murder, one warning then straight to a shooting range on the second offense. All soldiers can be trained by shooting at running targets.

    I agree with Prescott, all schools should be private, you get the education that you can afford and if you have graduated high school in the last 10 years you'll be getting a bill from the state.

    Again, I don't have actual numbers on savings, but every penny counts as we close the gap on the $8 billion dollar hole.


    The pay cut would be nice but I think $34,000 is a little low.Yes let them pay for their own health care and lets not forget about the insane pensions some ofthese guys get for just a couple years of service.

    Driving for thier tri-state trips would be nice and it would give them a chance to see some of the state that is paying their bills and who the claim to care about.

    Take away free lunches? Do you know that for some children school is the only place they get a meal all day and that is what gets some children to attend school everyday.Bad idea.why punish the children?

    20% tax may be a little steep for some people and then you will have even more children living in the dark ages then what we have now.

    Close wefare offices would help.Then require all recipients have mandatory drug test and if they fail they have the cost of test subtracted from their next check and then kick them out of the program.

    Closing down the jails? What would you do with all the other criminals if you chopped off hands of theives and killed the murderers, let the drug dealers and rapist go free?

    Making all schools private will not accomplish anything but increased dependency on the government and more uneducated people on the streets.People that can afford private schools already attend them and the people that cannot afford them you want to tell them sorry you are not good enough to get an education.Good luck with the billing theory because we will just spend more money trying to collect the money then what is owed.The state could start a committee to look into it and then appoint a couple dozen people to a sub-committee to figure the cost and then hire some more people to work out the details and only then can we hire a couple hundred friends to sub contract the jobs out to another country to collect the money.

    You had some good ideas in the beginning and then you choose to take out the defecit on the children.
  • Prescott
    I agree with Prescott, all schools should be private, you get the education that you can afford and if you have graduated high school in the last 10 years you'll be getting a bill from the state.
    What is the current cost per pupil in a public school system versus the cost of tuition at a private school??


    According to The Dayton Daily News in an article published June 30, 2010:

    Ohio ranked 19th among public school systems in per-pupil spending in 2008, according to a U.S. Census Bureau report released this week.

    Ohio spent $10,173 per pupil, which was below the national average of $10,259.

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/ohio-public-schools-19th-in-per-pupil-spending--789823.html

    Here is an example of a secondary school.


    Tuition for 2010-2011 School Year
    Bishop Hartley’s 2010-2011 tuition rates have been approved and are as follows:

    Participating Non-Participating(non-Catholic)
    First Child $7,075 $7,600
    Second $5,500 $6,650
    Third Child $4,000 $4,600

    http://www.bishop-hartley.org/index.php?id=510
  • ernest_t_bass
    Prescott, I think it is around $7500 or so, but don't quote me.

    Here is what I know...

    In my district, every 9-12 student has a laptop, every teacher has a laptop, 4 admins, one super, many AP classes, 3 year old building, HIGH percentage of free/reduced lunches and breakfastseses... and we came out in the BLACK!

    We are a rural community, a lot of businesses have left... we make it work!

    Reason I say that, our per average expenditure per student was about $3,000 below state average... given all the above.
  • majorspark
    password;695441 wrote:Take away free lunches? Do you know that for some children school is the only place they get a meal all day and that is what gets some children to attend school everyday.Bad idea.why punish the children?
    Yes bad idea. Why punish the children? After all it frees up a little extra change for their parent's cell phones, cable TV, or booze and cigarettes.
    password;695441 wrote:You had some good ideas in the beginning and then you choose to take out the defecit on the children.
    The children are one of the many reasons federal, state, and local budgets are so difficult to balance. True cuts or total elimination of programs are nearly impossible. Hell reductions in the rate of growth of programs such the school lunch program bring calls of "starving children".
  • mella
    I am playing devil's advocate here. Many are in favor of SB 5 because it save the state money. Period. I have not heard many concerns for the effects of this on educational quality, I refer to how are districts going to attract quality teachers in the future. I simple gave some ideas for saving money. Some good and others obviously rediculous. I do feel that some people in our state do agree with doing away with free lunches. There are many people who have lost their jobs and are struggling to make ends meet, why should they pay for others to eat for free.
  • bases_loaded
    Con_Alma;691221 wrote:The website provided are the only options available. Cutting services and or raising taxes are the only options available.

    http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...get/index.html


    I would start here.

    Allow oil and gas drilling on state land (raises $25 million)

    That seems low to me. But I agree.
  • password
    I agree something needs to be done but there is no perfect solution.An example of the problem would be my local area where they just released the financial data on the local school districts and it is interesting to see how two districts that have the same revenue can be so different with their fiscal problems.

    District A- average salary of $48,000. great pension and state of the art schools and facilities.Proven and well experienced school board with the attitude of what can we do for all the children and always investing in the future for all kids in the district.More school buildings and teachers. Total revenue is $13,800,00

    District B- average salary of $40,248. good pension with old buildings and rundown facilities.A group of local people with family ties to each other and little knowledge on running a school properly and the what can you do for me attitude.Likes to dictate what the personel including coaches can do for them and help their family members get ahead not what they can do to help the personel or students.They are always begging for a levy passage and being threatened to be taken over from the state.Total revenue is $13,200,00

    Same revenue but two different outcomes.Why is their such a difference?I am asking this because I think no matter what you do there will always be mis-managed schools and money wasted by people that have no idea what they are doing.So do you punish all schools because of a few bad ones?
  • analogkid
    Prescott;695443 wrote:What is the current cost per pupil in a public school system versus the cost of tuition at a private school??


    According to The Dayton Daily News in an article published June 30, 2010:

    Ohio ranked 19th among public school systems in per-pupil spending in 2008, according to a U.S. Census Bureau report released this week.

    Ohio spent $10,173 per pupil, which was below the national average of $10,259.

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/ohio-public-schools-19th-in-per-pupil-spending--789823.html

    Here is an example of a secondary school.


    Tuition for 2010-2011 School Year
    Bishop Hartley’s 2010-2011 tuition rates have been approved and are as follows:

    Participating Non-Participating(non-Catholic)
    First Child $7,075 $7,600
    Second $5,500 $6,650
    Third Child $4,000 $4,600

    http://www.bishop-hartley.org/index.php?id=510

    The Wellington School charges about $16,000 for kindergarten to $19,000 for 12th graders. But they do include lunch in the cost of the tuition.
    http://www.wellington.org/admissions/paying
  • Con_Alma
    When it comes to private schools the tuition price is not necessarily the cost per student to educate.
  • stlouiedipalma
    Of course not. That number falls short, so they have bingo.
  • believer
    stlouiedipalma;699584 wrote:Of course not. That number falls short, so they have bingo.
    At least it's not at taxpayer expense. Works for me.
  • Sonofanump
    password;695441 wrote:The pay cut would be nice but I think $34,000 is a little low.Yes let them pay for their own health care and lets not forget about the insane pensions some ofthese guys get for just a couple years of service.

    I disagree, I think his salary should be $21,900 since this is his first year in office.
  • Sonofanump
    mella;695389 wrote: Same with murder, one warning then straight to a shooting range on the second offense. All soldiers can be trained by shooting at running targets.

    First one is free?
  • fan_from_texas
    Sonofanump;700122 wrote:First one is free?
    Nice catch.