California - Declares state of Fiscal Emergency

• BGFalcons82

  

  Writerbuckeye;649146 wrote:Not really, but it would be a start.
  
  Stop funding the so-called war on drugs AND legalize pot, cocaine and smack (and regulate how it's distributed), and adopt the Nevada method of dealing with prostitution, and you'd probably have a healthy treasury, even after setting aside a significant portion for rehab programs and quality control (gotta test the drugs and the whores to make sure they're not contaminated).

  
  So that's it? That's the answer? Become a home for legal drugs? Come to America, the home of the free and blow for your nose. While a significant number of criminals are incarcerated due to abusing their bodies with drugs and prostitution, the libertarian in me says they're not hurting anybody. The conservative in me is telling me that we shouldn't just lower the bar so far that we have no morals left as a society. Is that what we want to teach our children? I don't.
  
  I have a neat idea to balance budgets....STOP SPENDING money that does not exist.
• dwccrew

  

  Writerbuckeye;649146 wrote:Not really, but it would be a start.
  
  Stop funding the so-called war on drugs AND legalize pot, cocaine and smack (and regulate how it's distributed), and adopt the Nevada method of dealing with prostitution, and you'd probably have a healthy treasury, even after setting aside a significant portion for rehab programs and quality control (gotta test the drugs and the whores to make sure they're not contaminated).

  
  Coke and hookers. Yes!
  

  BGFalcons82;649365 wrote:So that's it? That's the answer? Become a home for legal drugs? Come to America, the home of the free and blow for your nose. While a significant number of criminals are incarcerated due to abusing their bodies with drugs and prostitution, the libertarian in me says they're not hurting anybody. The conservative in me is telling me that we shouldn't just lower the bar so far that we have no morals left as a society. Is that what we want to teach our children? I don't.
  
  I have a neat idea to balance budgets....STOP SPENDING money that does not exist.

  
  The libertarian in you is smarter. How is legalizing drugs and prostitution teaching your children bad morals? Just because it is legal doesn't make it moral and you should teach your children this concept.
  
  It is not the government's job, IMO, to babysit people. People who use drugs and want to solicit prostitutes are engaging in victimless and non-violent crimes. It's when the two acts are illegal when crime is more prevelant. Tax and regulate it is the best solution. Not the government's job to teach morals, it's families and parents.
• I Wear Pants

  BGFalcons82;649365 wrote:So that's it? That's the answer? Become a home for legal drugs? Come to America, the home of the free and blow for your nose. While a significant number of criminals are incarcerated due to abusing their bodies with drugs and prostitution, the libertarian in me says they're not hurting anybody. The conservative in me is telling me that we shouldn't just lower the bar so far that we have no morals left as a society. Is that what we want to teach our children? I don't.
  
  I have a neat idea to balance budgets....STOP SPENDING money that does not exist.

  Because keeping them illegal is working so well and spending all that money fighting a "war" against them is working well too what with all the violence and such. That's a much better example to teach our children, "if we don't like something outlaw it and then imprison everyone that does".
  
  We should stop spending money that doesn't exist, and that includes spending that fake money on "wars" on drugs.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  Never said we shouldn't be cutting the budget dramatically too. You ASS/u/me/d that.
  
  People who want to self destruct are going to find ways to do it, legal or not. It's a huge waste of resources to arrest and imprison these folks. It simply doesn't work, either.
  
  Make the stuff legal, include registration as part of the process of acquiring it, along with counseling, and use half the proceeds to set up rehab facilities to help those who really want to help themselves.
  
  I've come 180 on this topic in my life. Seeing the monumental waste of resources to keep people from doing what they are going to do, anyway, just seems stupid to me. There's a better way. If my idea doesn't work, then tweak it and try again.
  
  But we know for certain what we're doing now is failing badly and wasting huge amounts of manpower and money.
• BGFalcons82

  

  WriterB...Not sure I deserved the capital ASS, but so be it. My comment wasn't directed to you as much as it was the board. Sorry for the poor communication skills...maybe bigdogg is right and I need remedial training.....NOT!
  
  The signicant problem I have with legalizing cocaine, heroin, LSD, et al, is the message that it sends to our young and impressionable minds. By legalizing it, we are saying, if you are old enough, then you are free to totally screw yourself up and the government nanny-state will pick you up and give you free ObamaKare and rehab to make you all better so you can do it again. I know I know I know...we do it with alcohol. But I equate alcohol to pot, and not the legions of lethal immediate killers, like opiates and high-end narcotics. The argument that we should "teach our kids" is true, but we teach them about the dangers of alcohol and they still are getting hammered at 16 years of age.
  
  I think our country should be better than just legalizing all sins and paying for all of their destruction. I don't like the connotation of legalized prostitution and drugs for anyone over 18. I know as a society, we've kicked God to the curb, but this would be kicking Him in the groin to go along with it. Sorry for the religious view, but that's how I feel.
• derek bomar

  

  I know what I would be doing the next day after you legalized pot and hookers
• Writerbuckeye

  

  BGFalcons82;650474 wrote:WriterB...Not sure I deserved the capital ASS, but so be it. My comment wasn't directed to you as much as it was the board. Sorry for the poor communication skills...maybe bigdogg is right and I need remedial training.....NOT!
  
  The signicant problem I have with legalizing cocaine, heroin, LSD, et al, is the message that it sends to our young and impressionable minds. By legalizing it, we are saying, if you are old enough, then you are free to totally screw yourself up and the government nanny-state will pick you up and give you free ObamaKare and rehab to make you all better so you can do it again. I know I know I know...we do it with alcohol. But I equate alcohol to pot, and not the legions of lethal immediate killers, like opiates and high-end narcotics. The argument that we should "teach our kids" is true, but we teach them about the dangers of alcohol and they still are getting hammered at 16 years of age.
  
  I think our country should be better than just legalizing all sins and paying for all of their destruction. I don't like the connotation of legalized prostitution and drugs for anyone over 18. I know as a society, we've kicked God to the curb, but this would be kicking Him in the groin to go along with it. Sorry for the religious view, but that's how I feel.

  
  You should look closer at how I wrote the ASS -- there's a u/me in there. Assuming makes an ASS of you AND ME. It wasn't intended to be directed only at you.
  
  I get your argument about giving up the morality argument if you legalize, but I don't see it exactly that way, either. We all have a choice as free human beings whether we're going to take a good path in life or not. Legalization doesn't change that most important decision, or the fact that as parents we still have to teach our children right from wrong and hope they listen.
  
  If you get right down to it: having things wrapped so tight legally and imprisoning personal use is as much nanny state government as having rehab and counseling available. However, one is more cost effective than the other, and doesn't tend to become a breeding ground for more and more violent crimes.
  
  The libertarian in me says we should be as free as possible without government pushing us in the back one way or another on (otherwise) victimless issues.
  
  If I'm going to make an error, it should be to err on the side of what gives human beings more freedom to determine how they want to live their lives.
• I Wear Pants

  BGFalcons82;650474 wrote:WriterB...Not sure I deserved the capital ASS, but so be it. My comment wasn't directed to you as much as it was the board. Sorry for the poor communication skills...maybe bigdogg is right and I need remedial training.....NOT!
  
  The signicant problem I have with legalizing cocaine, heroin, LSD, et al, is the message that it sends to our young and impressionable minds. By legalizing it, we are saying, if you are old enough, then you are free to totally screw yourself up and the government nanny-state will pick you up and give you free ObamaKare and rehab to make you all better so you can do it again. I know I know I know...we do it with alcohol. But I equate alcohol to pot, and not the legions of lethal immediate killers, like opiates and high-end narcotics. The argument that we should "teach our kids" is true, but we teach them about the dangers of alcohol and they still are getting hammered at 16 years of age.
  
  I think our country should be better than just legalizing all sins and paying for all of their destruction. I don't like the connotation of legalized prostitution and drugs for anyone over 18. I know as a society, we've kicked God to the curb, but this would be kicking Him in the groin to go along with it. Sorry for the religious view, but that's how I feel.

  And you were likely drinking at that age too.
  
  The problem is that we treat things like they're evil when they're not. How you use them can be. Just like how we approach sex in this country. If we were more open and casual about sex maybe we'd be able to have more open, honest discussion with our kids and they'd actually listen about not having or at least practicing safe sex.
• BGFalcons82

  

  I Wear Pants;650779 wrote:And you were likely drinking at that age too.
  
  The problem is that we treat things like they're evil when they're not. How you use them can be. Just like how we approach sex in this country. If we were more open and casual about sex maybe we'd be able to have more open, honest discussion with our kids and they'd actually listen about not having or at least practicing safe sex.

  Yep...so what? I grew up at a time when drinking was permitted by the time you were 18 and I was able to have a beer or two at home. Yes, I learned about alcohol at an early age and also learned the responsibility that came with it. Today, if you give your kid a beer when he's 16, the sheriff will be called to your door pronto. Can't have any underage drinking, now can we? To use Progressive's love of Europe to prove a point, Italians drink wine every day and Germans promote beer to families, so it can't be all wrong, can it?
  
  I suppose safe sex needs more attention, but the schools have co-opted mom and dad. Much like the dependency class developed by the Progressives, they want to take care of everything and everyone, so why wouldn't they? Oh yeah, if the teachings don't work, just go to Planned Parenthood and get a do-over...it won't hurt anybody...except the innocent child. I don't want to get into abortion here, but you brought up safe sex.
  
  My point in drug/prostitution legalization is that we are lowering our moral bar as a society. Along with Writerbuckeye, my attitudes have changed over time, but I'm still against giving heroin, LSD, cocaine, crack, you-name-it to people just because they can afford it and it helps with the deficit.
• I Wear Pants

  No the cops won't be called and even if they were called they couldn't do anything. It is perfectly legal for parents to give their kids alcohol when they're under 21 and even under 18. Obviously you cannot get them drunk but you are allowed purchasing and giving alcohol to your children.
• believer

  

  BGFalcons82;650870 wrote:Along with Writerbuckeye, my attitudes have changed over time, but I'm still against giving heroin, LSD, cocaine, crack, you-name-it to people just because they can afford it and it helps with the deficit.

  With the exception of marijuana, I agree with you.
• dwccrew

  

  BGFalcons82;650870 wrote: Along with Writerbuckeye, my attitudes have changed over time, but I'm still against giving heroin, LSD, cocaine, crack, you-name-it to people just because they can afford it and it helps with the deficit.

  
  While I agree that heroin, cocaine, carck, etc. are terrible drugs; I find that it is a never ending battle to continue to combat them. Why waste the money? Someone that wants to abuse these drugs will do it whether it is legal or not. If it was legal, I wouldn't touch any of those drugs. The decriminalization of hard drugs would not create an increase in usage IMO. People that want to use it will no matter what. Rational people, like yourself, will not touch the stuff no matter what.
  
  If we wanted to spend money on the war against drugs and it actually make a difference we would spend money educate the youth. Especially the youth in poorer areas of the country where drug use and dealing is much more rampant.
• believer

  

  dwccrew;651891 wrote:While I agree that heroin, cocaine, carck, etc. are terrible drugs; I find that it is a never ending battle to continue to combat them. Why waste the money? Someone that wants to abuse these drugs will do it whether it is legal or not. If it was legal, I wouldn't touch any of those drugs. The decriminalization of hard drugs would not create an increase in usage IMO. People that want to use it will no matter what. Rational people, like yourself, will not touch the stuff no matter what.
  
  If we wanted to spend money on the war against drugs and it actually make a difference we would spend money educate the youth. Especially the youth in poorer areas of the country where drug use and dealing is much more rampant.

  Educate the youth on what? That there's no money in it?
• I Wear Pants

  Education and prevention programs have shown to be more effective at stopping drug use than other methods.
• dwccrew

  

  believer;651903 wrote:Educate the youth on what? That there's no money in it?

  See below.
  

  I Wear Pants;652353 wrote:Education and prevention programs have shown to be more effective at stopping drug use than other methods.

  
  Exactly. Although some people don't want to accept it, children do actually absorb information provided to them. If we chose to educate children on the dangers of drugs and drug use, results would be better than by just punishing them. Prevention is always a better way to approach drugs and drug use rather than "treating" the problem.
  
  I'd like to add that spending the money to educate and inform would be less costly than fighting drugs and housing inmates. Sure, you aren't going to stop every single user or dealer, but you could make a significant change.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  The biggest issue with the failed war on drugs is the monumental costs of housing all these prisoners who are incarcerated for having used, and the driving up of costs of drugs by making them more scarce.
  
  What that does is create more thefts (as users seek quick cash) and violence as it puts more pressure on dealers protecting their turf.
  
  If drugs were legal and controlled, they'd be much less expensive to produce and distribute, and it would all but end the ancillary crime that goes with the failed war on drugs.
  
  It's not ideal, because people will still get hooked on these drugs, people will still die from overdoses, and lives will be ruined by people who likely would make the same bad choices if drugs are legal or not. But I have to believe it would still be a better system than the abject failure we've created. And certainly far less expensive to maintain.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  Writerbuckeye;655270 wrote:It's not ideal, because people will still get hooked on these drugs, people will still die from overdoses, and lives will be ruined by people who likely would make the same bad choices if drugs are legal or not. But I have to believe it would still be a better system than the abject failure we've created. And certainly far less expensive to maintain.

  I can actually buy into this argument because the same thing happens with addictions such as gambling. People also destroy themselves/lives with gambling.
• dwccrew

  

  Writerbuckeye;655270 wrote:The biggest issue with the failed war on drugs is the monumental costs of housing all these prisoners who are incarcerated for having used, and the driving up of costs of drugs by making them more scarce.
  
  What that does is create more thefts (as users seek quick cash) and violence as it puts more pressure on dealers protecting their turf.
  
  If drugs were legal and controlled, they'd be much less expensive to produce and distribute, and it would all but end the ancillary crime that goes with the failed war on drugs.
  
  It's not ideal, because people will still get hooked on these drugs, people will still die from overdoses, and lives will be ruined by people who likely would make the same bad choices if drugs are legal or not. But I have to believe it would still be a better system than the abject failure we've created. And certainly far less expensive to maintain.

  
  I agree with this post. I am a proponent of the decriminalization of banned substances i.e. drugs. IMO, usage won't go up just because they are legal. People who want to use will use regardless of whether it is legal or not. This is not debateable. Our huge prison population is evidence of this fact.