Welcome to Censorship in the United States Promoted by Republicans and Democrats Both

• I Wear Pants

  http://torrent-finder.info/torrent-finder-domain-seizure.php
  
  Torrent-Finder.com was recently taken down with its domain name seized with no warning, trial, or even allegations of infringement. This is ludicrous and is the stuff that the recently proposed COICA and several other bills allow and promote.
  
  Land of the free indeed.
• BGFalcons82

  

  IWP - I'm no lawyer, and the article is confusing to read, but I get the impression there were copyright infringements and intellectual theft activities. In other words, the torrent-finder website appears to me to be a leech website that relies on others to do the work and they just latch on and send the same info out in their name. Kind of like if someone took stories off of the AP wire and sent them out with their name on it and did not acknowledge AP for the story. Maybe it's legal...like I said, I'm no lawyer. That's my take, tho.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  From what I understand, there is pirating going on with this site -- so if that's why they took it down...bravo.
• cbus4life

  Writerbuckeye;605302 wrote:From what I understand, there is pirating going on with this site -- so if that's why they took it down...bravo.

  
  Yep.
• gut

  Yeah, I think it's a real challenge/struggle with the internet and new technology to balance "free speech" or whatever other constitutional right you want to claim is violated. It's just semantics to try and claim otherwise with sites that have the clear intent of promoting/enabling illegal activity, rather it takes places on the actual site or not. You wouldn't get the same reaction if this site instead pointed people to off-shore places promoting child pornography.
  
  And it seems like the people that whine about this the most are people who are no longer able to steal intellectual property for free.
• I Wear Pants

  There is no pirating going on from that website. That website, like google or any other search merely provides links to torrents. It hosts or distributes nothing illegal on its sight. And it was not told it was infringing, nor was there a warrant or any suit brought against them. Their domain name was simply taken by the government.
  
  It's not a question of the copyright infringement. That is obviously illegal and there are methods to persue people who violate your IP. However, that does not give the government permission to seize domain names and other information without a warrant simply because they want to or the MPAA or RIAA said that they didn't like a site. That's not how it works.
• majorspark

  

  Writerbuckeye;605302 wrote:From what I understand, there is pirating going on with this site -- so if that's why they took it down...bravo.

  
  I agree with you if there is any pirating, theft, or any laws being broken this site should be shut down. I believe the question here is due process.
  
  No government authority can forcefully enter a business without a judicially approved search warrant. If after that point sufficient evidence is found it must be brought before the judicial branch for review before any action can be taken by any governmental authority.
• I Wear Pants

  Due process is an endangered species as it pertains to the internet. Which is sad.
  
  More disturbing info: http://www.eff.org/wp/unintended-consequences-under-dmca
  
  Look at all the good the DMCA did (heavy sarcasm intended).
• CenterBHSFan

  

  I would think that the government would be more concerned with sites that showcase live feeds of child pornography, or sites that describe how to build bombs, etc.
  Not quite understanding what is going on in this particular instance, and honestly, it's not something that I'm willing to be "OK" with at the moment.
  
  In regards of a quasi military state of our internet, I'm thinking instances like this are going to really be focused on alot more now. And, people aren't going to like it at all.
  
  Does our government have the right to inject itself into every little thing, including basically "erasing" a website like the one we're talking about? If this is allowed to happen, with no preambulation and/or consequences - what's next?
  
  How big is the government bureaucracy for the internet going to get? And just as important, how invasive will we allow it to be?
• I Wear Pants

  If they say it's to defeat terrorists then there are many that will let them do whatever they want. Can't have those terrorists and their websites threatening us.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  I Wear Pants;605826 wrote:If they say it's to defeat terrorists then there are many that will let them do whatever they want. Can't have those terrorists and their websites threatening us.

  Well, if you weren't such a supporter of terrorists, you might see their point of view, Pants!
  
  
  
• jmog

  Here's the way I look at it.
  
  99% of torrent download websites have some sort of copyright infringement issues/problems. So, 99% of websites that actually distribute torrents have some illegal content on them.
  
  Even though this search website ONLY was a search on these websites, it still was directly searching for illegal content, which is inherantly illegal.
  
  For instance, if I created a website that was only a search engine for child porn, even though my website had zero child porn on it, my website should be illegal as well.
  
  Now, the due process question comes into play here and since I don't know the whole story the government could have FUBAR'd that pretty bad.
  
  However, in my opinion, the website should be shut down as it's main goal is to search illegal downloadable software or audo/video.
• BGFalcons82

  

  More troubling than the torrent story is this one - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703395204576023452250748540.html
  
  It would appears Obama's FCC has taken cues from Obama's EPA department and is mandating orders and regulations that used to be part of the legislative branch's domain. Let's hope this crap also stops on 1-3-2011.
  
  I would argue the internet is the last bastion of freedom that we have and the elitists just can't stop themselves from trying to regulate it, control it...and ultimately....here it comes....tax it.
• Thinthickbigred

  and funded by the insurance companies who actually make all the laws ,because they payy all the campaign money for all these crooks....
• I Wear Pants

  jmog;608022 wrote:Here's the way I look at it.
  
  99% of torrent download websites have some sort of copyright infringement issues/problems. So, 99% of websites that actually distribute torrents have some illegal content on them.
  
  Even though this search website ONLY was a search on these websites, it still was directly searching for illegal content, which is inherantly illegal.
  
  For instance, if I created a website that was only a search engine for child porn, even though my website had zero child porn on it, my website should be illegal as well.
  
  Now, the due process question comes into play here and since I don't know the whole story the government could have FUBAR'd that pretty bad.
  
  However, in my opinion, the website should be shut down as it's main goal is to search illegal downloadable software or audo/video.

  The torrent websites that we are talking about do not distribute anything illegal and you can get the same results on Google/Bing if you make the correct queries. Should Google and Bing also be shut down?
• jmog

  I Wear Pants;609218 wrote:The torrent websites that we are talking about do not distribute anything illegal and you can get the same results on Google/Bing if you make the correct queries. Should Google and Bing also be shut down?

  
  I have never seen a torrent website that had ZERO illegal/copyright infringement issues.
  
  Google/Bing are general searches, the website that got shut down specifically searched out torrents.
  
  One can use google/bing to find kiddie porn, but if I create a site that specifically ONLY searches for kiddie porn, my site should be shut down.
• I Wear Pants

  The torrent websites don't host or control the content on them. It's not their fault that the content is related to illegal files just like it isn't Google and Bing's fault. (Unless the website is specifically designed to promote the sharing of illegal files, but most torrent sites I have been to have had things in their FAQ/Terms of Use that say you shouldn't share things you don't own or have permission to share.
• jmog

  I Wear Pants;609271 wrote:The torrent websites don't host or control the content on them. It's not their fault that the content is related to illegal files just like it isn't Google and Bing's fault. (Unless the website is specifically designed to promote the sharing of illegal files, but most torrent sites I have been to have had things in their FAQ/Terms of Use that say you shouldn't share things you don't own or have permission to share.

  
  Ok, so let's say I have a house and I rent it out on the hour basis and do not ask/care to ask any questions with regards to what the people who rent by the hour are using it for, and I even put a sign up that says "do not do anything illegal".
  
  Now, let's say that in reality, while I have the sign and I do not ask questions, I know for a fact that many grown men rent my house by the hour and are walking in with preteen girls or boys.
  
  You mean to tell me that my knowledge of the fact that my property is being used to do illegal acts is not in fact illegal in itself?
  
  I beg to differ.
• I Wear Pants

  Teen Porn/Sex isn't a similar crime to copyright infringement. And a website isn't real estate. Bad analogy.
  
  Besides, most torrent sites have something like this:
  
  "Disclaimer: None of the files shown here are actually hosted or transmitted by this server. The links are provided solely by this site's users. The site moderation is also a service provided by the site's users. The administrator of this site (Demonoid.me) cannot be held responsible for what its users post, or any other actions of its users. You may not use this site to distribute or download any material when you do not have the legal rights to do so. It is your own responsibility to adhere to these terms.
  
  By using this site you indicate your agreement to our terms and conditions."
  
  Even if the administrators were aware of the infringing files being linked to it would likely be impossible to prove in a court. Which is why they cannot just take down every torrent site. Which is why the go after people uploading lots of files (though they go about it in the entirely wrong manner).