Unions or Un-Unions

• Writerbuckeye

  

  Con_Alma;547141 wrote:You directed it's members how to vote?
  
  Why would you not provide them information and allow them to choose for themselves how to vote?

  
  I dealt with union stewards while I worked with the state. They did NOTHING but work on union stuff all day. They are supposed to do their job, first, but that's not how it works. And yes, they tell the members how they should vote.
• believer

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;547268 wrote:"Yeah, hate to break it to you, but Government Motors didn't pay off their loans "in full". They, just like the government, used borrowed money to pay off borrowed money. "
  
  Agreed, that people even believe this damns another public union, the teachers.
  
  GM was a broke company, we pumped 10s of billions of dollars into a company that could have been bought for practically nothing, because of its liabilities. The U.S. is NOT going to get paid back in full by any means, we (the taxpayers) saved a company because it was deemed to big to fail. They are looking at about a $10B IPO, no way, no freaking way does the stock price get up to pay back all of the amount poured into it.
  
  It was the definition of a bailout.

  There you go again...arguing facts and logic with liberals. Doing this with a union liberal might get your legs broken.
• Glory Days

  

  CenterBHSFan;546975 wrote:You don't think that our government doesn't focus on their workers' safety?
  Or not enough?

  Depends, some sections of government are better than others. Just like some private sector jobs care more about worker’s safety than others.
  

  Writerbuckeye;546986 wrote:The argument that unions are needed in the public sector is so bogus it's almost funny.
  
  ALL government slots already have so many protections in place, anything a union provides is overkill to the point that you can't get a drunk fired, even if they show up drunk on the job multiple times.
  
  I know, because I just tried to get some type of punishment against this worker, and was stalled and stonewalled at every turn. The union rep told me privately he knew this woman was nothing but a drunk and non-productive, but he didn't care. It was his job to protect her and keep her on the job.
  
  Well, he succeeded. Long after I left that position -- she was still there, still drunk, and still on the job.
  
  And if you think that was just one egregious example of how awful public sector unions are, think again. Crap like that happens everywhere, and supervisors in public sector jobs are powerless to get rid of them and replace them with productive people.

  Haha you realize you just described ALL unions, not just public ones right? Your story is exactly the same one a buddy told me about her private sector union. The worker would come in drunk, even crashed her car and got a DUI, still couldn’t be fired because of the union.
  
  oh and how do you think those government slots got those protections? a magic job protection fairy?
  

  Writerbuckeye;547293 wrote:I dealt with union stewards while I worked with the state. They did NOTHING but work on union stuff all day. They are supposed to do their job, first, but that's not how it works. And yes, they tell the members how they should vote.

  once again, you don’t think that happens in private sector unions?
• Zombaypirate

  All unions need busted and on top of that government needs to stay out of business affairs. Too many liberals that want nanny state government to protect them instead of educating themselves and working hard to get what you need.
• KnightRyder

  

  BGFalcons82;546997 wrote:In 1981 the air traffic controllers union tried on Ronald Reagan....and lost everything. Link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_(1968)
  
  I don't know how a huge union supporter such as yourself could have overlooked this one. It was a very significant story back in the day.

  
  maybe because that was 30 years ago , and carries no weight today
• believer

  

  KnightRyder;548398 wrote:maybe because that was 30 years ago , and carries no weight today

  I'll let BG deal with this one....waaaaaaaayyy too easy.
• I Wear Pants

  Unions have their place but with the amount of regulations to protect workers (and OHSA, etc) I feel that many unions are past their useful period. Does that mean they all are? No. But I think that there are a lot of them that may be doing more harm than help these days .
• believer

  

  I Wear Pants;548436 wrote:Unions have their place but with the amount of regulations to protect workers (and OHSA, etc) I feel that many unions are past their useful period. Does that mean they all are? No. But I think that there are a lot of them that may be doing more harm than help these days .

  I can't believe this but I agree with you!
• BGFalcons82

  

  KnightRyder;548398 wrote:maybe because that was 30 years ago , and carries no weight today

  
  Here's what you wrote originally. Interestingly, I tried to find the original post you made and couldn't. Did you delete it?
  
  Originally Posted by KnightRyder
  how many times have i read about unions striking themselves out of a job? actually never.
  
  When Reagan fired PATCO, it was seen as the largest union-busting move by anyone anywhere anytime. It also greatly affected the airline industry and he took a great chance taking his stance, but he felt they'd gotten too big for their britches and striking wasn't going to be tolerated. I write this because even though it was 29 years ago, it was a milepost event and you can't accept nor acknowledge it ever happened. Kind of sad, really.
  
  No weight today, eh? How many federal public unions have gone on strike since then? I'll let you do the research, since your history skills need some polishing.
• believer

  

  BGFalcons82;548443 wrote:When Reagan fired PATCO, it was seen as the largest union-busting move by anyone anywhere anytime. It also greatly affected the airline industry and he took a great chance taking his stance, but he felt they'd gotten too big for their britches and striking wasn't going to be tolerated. I write this because even though it was 29 years ago, it was a milepost event and you can't accept nor acknowledge it ever happened. Kind of sad, really.
  
  No weight today, eh? How many federal public unions have gone on strike since then? I'll let you do the research, since your history skills need some polishing.

  BG shoots, he SCORES!
• BGFalcons82

  

  I Wear Pants;548436 wrote:Unions have their place but with the amount of regulations to protect workers (and OHSA, etc) I feel that many unions are past their useful period. Does that mean they all are? No. But I think that there are a lot of them that may be doing more harm than help these days .

  
  Like Believer...I'm with ya on this one.
  
  I always go back to what was the genesis for union creation last century and do those circumstances exist today? The big issues back in the day were low wages, inhuman working conditions, unsafe work places, and overworked employees. Today, we have a minimum wage, OSHA (whom my firm deals with daily), federal regulations defining work weeks/work hours, and the single biggest change...the internet, to publicly ridicule and harass employers whom violate their workers. So tell us, KnightRyder, why do we need unions today? Looks to me like the issues that created them have been addressed and solved. What is out there today that requires unions to protect their members?
• believer

  

  BGFalcons82;548453 wrote:Looks to me like the issues that created them have been addressed and solved. What is out there today that requires unions to protect their members?

  Hard-core unionists would say "job security." But fighting for fair wages and workplace safety are tangible. Job security in today's global economy is a myth unless Big Labor can figure out a way to make a toe-hold in Communist China.
  
  It's tough to compete when you can pay the average Chinese laborer $3 a day to make shoes, but the average American unionized laborer earns $18 per hour not-to-mention generous benefits packages.
• BGFalcons82

  

  believer;548478 wrote:Hard-core unionists would say "job security." But fighting for fair wages and workplace safety are tangible. Job security in today's global economy is a myth unless Big Labor can figure out a way to make a toe-hold in Communist China.
  
  It's tough to compete when you can pay the average Chinese laborer $3 a day to make shoes, but the average American unionized laborer earns $18 per hour not-to-mention generous benefits packages.

  That is exactly where the unions and statists should be focusing their attention. Why do they look away at the Chinese, Indonesians, Vietnamese, and Pakistanis that indeed pay $3/day? Why do they look the other way when it comes to the environmental conditions in China and other expanding countries (India for example)? Why won't they rail against the oppression against the Chinese people from their government? Why not spend time, effort, and money to raise our global competition to OUR level, rather than back them because WE are doing something wrong? If they would attack the real oppressors and go after the real reasons companies leave the states, I would be 100% behind them. Unfortunately, it's too damn difficult to bite the hand that feeds them.
• believer

  

  BGFalcons82;548498 wrote:That is exactly where the unions and statists should be focusing their attention. Why do they look away at the Chinese, Indonesians, Vietnamese, and Pakistanis that indeed pay $3/day? Why do they look the other way when it comes to the environmental conditions in China and other expanding countries (India for example)? Why won't they rail against the oppression against the Chinese people from their government? Why not spend time, effort, and money to raise our global competition to OUR level, rather than back them because WE are doing something wrong? If they would attack the real oppressors and go after the real reasons companies leave the states, I would be 100% behind them. Unfortunately, it's too damn difficult to bite the hand that feeds them.

  Exactly. I marvel at the leftists in the United States (in particular Big Labor liberals) when they set-up roadblock after roadblock making doing business in the United States too costly (IE: overreaching environmental laws, wage laws, etc.) and then BITCH when companies send their business to global locations that make their products far more inexpensively because these countries DO NOT have crippling environmental and labor laws and, of course, Big Labor breathing down their necks.
  
  Now these same leftist pin heads (and conservative politicians as well to be fair) are beholden to the Chi-coms and their $$$$$$$$$$$ to keep this country's struggling economy moving.
  
  It's absolutely bass ackwards.
• Writerbuckeye

  

  This is a great thread.
• BGFalcons82

  

  I see Knightyider is posting elsewhere, but not on here. I wonder why he won't come back and play?
• Belly35

  

  BGFalcons82;550441 wrote:I see Knightyider is posting elsewhere, but not on here. I wonder why he won't come back and play?

  Because posting was to much like work?
• I Wear Pants

  BGFalcons82;550441 wrote:I see Knightyider is posting elsewhere, but not on here. I wonder why he won't come back and play?

  Because you guys are big meanies. Duh.
• CenterBHSFan

  

  I Wear Pants;550518 wrote:Because you guys are big meanies. Duh.

  haha!
• KnightRyder

  

  BGFalcons82;548443 wrote:Here's what you wrote originally. Interestingly, I tried to find the original post you made and couldn't. Did you delete it?
  
  Originally Posted by KnightRyder
  how many times have i read about unions striking themselves out of a job? actually never.
  
  When Reagan fired PATCO, it was seen as the largest union-busting move by anyone anywhere anytime. It also greatly affected the airline industry and he took a great chance taking his stance, but he felt they'd gotten too big for their britches and striking wasn't going to be tolerated. I write this because even though it was 29 years ago, it was a milepost event and you can't accept nor acknowledge it ever happened. Kind of sad, really.
  
  No weight today, eh? How many federal public unions have gone on strike since then? I'll let you do the research, since your history skills need some polishing.

  
  yea it greatly affected the airline industry , many of those airlines are now out of business. that was the beginning of the end for many of them
• KnightRyder

  

  Writerbuckeye;549726 wrote:This is a great thread.

  
  yea it is . its always fun discussing unions with people that know little or nothing about them
• queencitybuckeye

  KnightRyder;550679 wrote:yea it is . its always fun discussing unions with people that know little or nothing about them

  
  There's no reason to believe that the people who have a different opinion of a subject know less than you. It's a cheap tactic for someone who can't defend their stance.
• BGFalcons82

  

  KnightRyder;550679 wrote:yea it is . its always fun discussing unions with people that know little or nothing about them

  
  Since you DON'T know...here is some knowledge: I was in a labor union for close to 10 years, so I'm a little knowledgeable about them. The union I belonged to was in fact put into receivership because the leaders were theives, con-artists, and corrupt. Gee...there's a first for everything, eh?
• KnightRyder

  

  BGFalcons82;550731 wrote:Since you DON'T know...here is some knowledge: I was in a labor union for close to 10 years, so I'm a little knowledgeable about them. The union I belonged to was in fact put into receivership because the leaders were theives, con-artists, and corrupt. Gee...there's a first for everything, eh?

  
  i'll call bullshit
• KnightRyder

  

  queencitybuckeye;550705 wrote:There's no reason to believe that the people who have a different opinion of a subject know less than you. It's a cheap tactic for someone who can't defend their stance.

  
  its not their difference of opinion , its their flat out ignorance on topic.