The War Logs--Afghanistan

• I Wear Pants

  Didn't Korea actually want us there though?
• I Wear Pants

  isadore;438576 wrote:65# “Nobody is winning in Afghanistan-General McChrystal. 5/17/2010. 11:42 PM
  Total quote.
  
  
  And you just keep on coming with these statements
  If they orchestrate attacks on civilians they are evil, if they kill American soldiers they can still be good guys in your eyes. Do you tell your service people friends that. The people who are killing them are ok in your book;
  Our service people acted incorrectly at Abu Ghrabib.
  And that is your opinion about Iraq but
  Iraq had invaded its neighbors, it had tried to build nuclear weapons. Its evil regime practiced genocide.

  It had invaded it's neighbors in what, 1990? We went and stopped that. After that nothing but talk came out of the country.
• majorspark

  

  I Wear Pants;439004 wrote:Didn't Korea actually want us there though?

  
  The South Koreans did. So did the South Vietnamese.
• Glory Days

  

  majorspark;439009 wrote:The South Koreans did. So did the South Vietnamese.

  
  The difference, it wasnt popular to go against the government during the Korean War. however during Vietnam, you werent cool if you werent protesting.
• Glory Days

  

  I Wear Pants;439006 wrote:It had invaded it's neighbors in what, 1990? We went and stopped that. After that nothing but talk came out of the country.

  
  except murding Kurds, torturing Iraqi citizens, and harboring terrorists.
• I Wear Pants

  Glory Days;439015 wrote:except murding Kurds, torturing Iraqi citizens, and harboring terrorists.

  I thought their Kurd murdering days were in the 80s?
• Glory Days

  

  I Wear Pants;439029 wrote:I thought their Kurd murdering days were in the 80s?

  
  Nope, take a look at what happened after we decided not to completely invade after the Gulf War. The Kurds thought they had our support against Saddam, but the US decided not to go in and finish the job. Instead Saddam crushed them and millions fled into Iran and was also the reason for the No-fly zone.
• isadore

  I Wear Pants;439006 wrote:It had invaded it's neighbors in what, 1990? We went and stopped that. After that nothing but talk came out of the country.

  The nature of the regime was evil, genocidal and expansionist. The Kurds have much improved level of freedom and autonomy. They are relieved of the threat from their genocidal overlands. The long suppressses majority shia now lead the government.
  So what else can we look at:

  I Wear Pants wrote:So we have the right to just run roughshod over anyone and they are automatically the bad guys for using gorilla/brutal tactics that are their only real way to fight. We are too large an enemy for almost any single country to fight. Is everyone just supposed to bow to our will then?"

  
  #65 “Nobody is winning in Afghanistan-General McChrystal. 5/17/2010. 11:42 PM
  Total quote.
  

  I Wear Pants wrote:I did not say that….

  #49 “The War Logs-Afghanistan] 8/1/2010 4;47 PM
  
  You are consistent, you continue to refuse to condemn those that plan and carryout the killing of our service people. You write so sympathetically of these poor folks who with their sniper rifles, ieds and suicide pack maim and kill your fellow Americans. You are beyond the pale.
• I Wear Pants

  You keep putting that quote in there from McChrystal as if I said it. I am not Gen. McChrystal.
  
  And you are consistent in that you refuse to answer my questions. Do you believe that there are no logical reasons for some in the middle east to want to harm our troops (family/friends being killed by us, etc)?
  
  Understanding that there might be reasons other than "they are evil, evil, demons of people" does not mean I support or think their decisions are correct. It just means I realize that they weren't simply born with a motivation to want to kill Americans.
  
  Also, it was a different time in the world. But we were once a genocidal,expansionist country too.
• fish82

  

  Wedgie's drama-filled histrionics aside, he's actually pretty much right about this issue. Afghanistan isn't going to be "won" by any sense of the imagination. It's been a completely unwinnable theater since the dawn of time...our best move would be to just get the hell out with a friendly reminder to the Taliban that if they feel the urge to fuck with us again, we'd be more than happy to come back and turn their fine nation into a shiny glass ashtray.
• I Wear Pants

  ^^^^ +11
• isadore

  I Wear Pants;439191 wrote:You keep putting that quote in there from McChrystal as if I said it. I am not Gen. McChrystal.
  
  And you are consistent in that you refuse to answer my questions. Do you believe that there are no logical reasons for some in the middle east to want to harm our troops (family/friends being killed by us, etc)?
  
  Understanding that there might be reasons other than "they are evil, evil, demons of people" does not mean I support or think their decisions are correct. It just means I realize that they weren't simply born with a motivation to want to kill Americans.
  
  Also, it was a different time in the world. But we were once a genocidal,expansionist country too.

  #65 on the General McCrystal thread 5/18/2010 12:42 AM you wrote

  I Wear Pants wrote:So we have the right to just run roughshod over anyone and they are automatically the bad guys for using gorilla/brutal tactics that are their only real way to fight. We are too large an enemy for almost any single country to fight. Is everyone just supposed to bow to our will then?

  your total statement
  You did not use quotation marks, you cited no source, you in no way attributed the statement to the General. Up to this time you have never attributed the statement to him. When you are called on it, first you claim you did not write it;

  I Wear Pants wrote: I did not say that….

  #49 “The War Logs-Afghanistan] 8/1/2010 4;47 PM
  You claim that McCrystal said it. Could you give me a source for that statement?
  What is your attitude toward America.
  #61

  I Wear Pants wrote:We are the closest thing left to imperialists.

  General McCrystal Thread, 5/17201 11:14 PM
  Gosh no wonder you are will never condemn those who try to kill our troops. Our troops are the bad guys to people with your view of America.
  You just asked this question

  I Wear Pants wrote:And you are consistent in that you refuse to answer my questions. Do you believe that there are no logical reasons for some in the middle east to want to harm our troops (family/friends being killed by us, etc)?

  You asked this question in slightly different form and I answered it. #35 this thread.

  I Wear Pants wrote:What would you do if you were an Iraqi citizen and your town was bombed and many of your family members were killed? Would you welcome the US soldiers like liberators?

  #36

  isadore wrote:If I was an Iraqi? Well lets see, if I was a Shia or a Kurd who between them are by far the largest part of the Iraqi population, I would be damned happy that the regime that had killed hundreds of thousands of my people had finally been overthrown. I would appreciate the people who stopped the repression against us and finally gave us a say in government. If I was a baathist thug or an Islamic fanatic I might not be so happy

  
  So there was no avoidance of your question. You get answer, then claim you never got one. But ok.
  Now I will answer it for Afghani. If I was ethnically a non Pashtun (half the country) I would be happy to be liberated from their oppression, as I would if I were a Shia or the member of any other minority religious group. If I put any value on hope for modern life, an real education, mobility, personal freedom outside of a theocray I would be happy to see the Americans. If I were female I would be ecstatic that the Americans have liberated me. (see Cover of Time Magazine). You know that 67,000 French civilians were killed in the aerial bombing that was part of liberation of France. They hated their oppressors not their liberators and blamed them for the deaths.
  http://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/camp/eur/fra/air/libf-air.html
• I Wear Pants

  I said that I didn't say that the people who kill American soldiers are good people. Which you said I did. That was factually untrue. You twist people's words.
  
  If you were following the conversation you'd know what I was talking about.
• isadore

  ^^^^^
  Last words on #48 in my comments on #48 on this thread was this quote from you

  I Wear Pants wrote:So we have the right to just run roughshod over anyone and they are automatically the bad guys for using gorilla/brutal tactics that are their only real way to fight. We are too large an enemy for almost any single country to fight. Is everyone just supposed to bow to our will then?"

  Your next comment on 49# on this thread

  I Wear Pants wrote:I did not say that.

  Then who do you claim said it

  I Wear Pants wrote:You keep putting that quote in there from McChrystal as if I said it. I am not Gen. McChrystal.

  #64 this thread.
  But of course we both know that quote was from you,, 65# “Nobody is winning in Afghanistan-General McChrystal. 5/17/2010. 11:42 PM
  Total quote, nothing altered, nothing added or cut off.
  
  

  I Wear Pants wrote:We are the closest thing left to imperialists.

  #61 McChrystal thread
  According to you using “gorilla”, brutal tactics does not make them bad guys. Blowing up American soldiers with hidden IEDs to doesn’t make them bad guys. Strapping a suicide bomb on fanatic and blowing up Americans does not make them bad guys. Why don’t you tell that to all these service people you know.
  Take a look at that woman on the cover of Time, just a Taliban tactic to control the local population.
  They are all scum and deserve to die and rot in hell, even if you think they aren’t such bad guys.
• I Wear Pants

  Where did I ever say "People that kill American's are good guys" ? Where?
  
  I just didn't understand why you were putting the thread titles before the quotes.
  
  And we are the closest thing left to imperialists.
• isadore

  ^^^^^
  As has been shown:
  You made a statement that the fact that terrorists using brutal, guerilla tactics killed American service people, that did not necessarily mean they were bad guys. They were justified in using those methods against the /American troops. Tactics they use for example IED and suicide bombers.
  Then you said you did not say it.
  Then you claimed it was not you who said it, but General McChrystal, but you did not cite a source to support that statement.
  Oh yes and we are evil imperialists.
  Then you said you had a lot of service people friends but you never said if you told them the high opinion you have of the killers of American service people.
  
  Oh you put thread titles with the quotes so if anyone wants they can check the sources to see if they are what is reported.
• I Wear Pants

  I did not claim McChrystal said it. I only brought up McChrystal because you kept putting his quote (the nobody is winning one) before my quote. I didn't understand that you were posting that because it was the thread title that I posted that particular quote in. I was therefore very confused as to why you were constantly placing that quote before mine.
  
  I also have many times clearly stated that I do not approve of beheading, torture, etc of US troops. But I do understand why those who oppose us might feel that is their only option of resistance. Doesn't mean I think it's right.
• isadore

  people who try to kill American military members are scum and deserve death.