Top Secret America

• ptown_trojans_1

  

  I'm in San Diego for a conference, but this story first got around on Friday and broke today.
  Dana Priest of the Washington Post has spent the last two years investigating the U.S. intelligence agencies growth since 9/11. The stories, released on a website came out today and it's a must read for everyone.
  
  Here is the website:
  http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/
  
  Here is today's article:
  http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/articles/a-hidden-world-growing-beyond-control/print/
  From the article:

  The investigation's other findings include:
  
  * Some 1,271 government organizations and 1,931 private companies work on programs related to counterterrorism, homeland security and intelligence in about 10,000 locations across the United States.
  
  * An estimated 854,000 people, nearly 1.5 times as many people as live in Washington, D.C., hold top-secret security clearances.
  
  * In Washington and the surrounding area, 33 building complexes for top-secret intelligence work are under construction or have been built since September 2001. Together they occupy the equivalent of almost three Pentagons or 22 U.S. Capitol buildings - about 17 million square feet of space.
  
  * Many security and intelligence agencies do the same work, creating redundancy and waste. For example, 51 federal organizations and military commands, operating in 15 U.S. cities, track the flow of money to and from terrorist networks.
  
  * Analysts who make sense of documents and conversations obtained by foreign and domestic spying share their judgment by publishing 50,000 intelligence reports each year - a volume so large that many are routinely ignored.

  It has produced emails from all branches of government saying to employees keep your mouth shut:
  http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/07/16/state_department_warns_employees_about_new_website_highlighting_top_secret_faciliti
  
  Here is a review from the Atlantic:
  http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Whats-In-The-Washington-Post-Story-Terrifying-the-Intelligence-Community-4360
  
  
  I'll say it is an explosive series that will open many eyes, and while the intelligence community does keep it safe, it has ballooned since 9/11 into something too big. I hope this does promote dialogue on how to decrease the system, but still keep us safe.
  Living in DC and knowing people in the intelligence community, this report was all they talked about this weekend. Also, living in the area, it is hard not to notice all the new buildings. Check it out.
• Belly35

  

  I've done intelligence work
• Thread Bomber

  

  ^^^^What happened to you then ?
• sjmvsfscs08

  Belly35;427159 wrote:I've done intelligence work

  
  Would you like a gold star? haha
  
  But on a serious note, 800,000+ people should not have that access. That is crazy to think about.
• Belly35

  

  Thread Bomber;427191 wrote:^^^^What happened to you then ?

  Two words; Politic Forum
• jhay78

  

  I've often wondered about the existence of the Department of Homeland Security. After all, isn't the Department of Defense, by its very name, supposed to secure the homeland?
  I will say that defending its borders and keeping its citizens safe should be top priorities of any government, and the Constitution gives our federal government that authority. But something's definitely out of whack with the current system.
• believer

  

  sjmvsfscs08;427192 wrote:Would you like a gold star? haha
  
  But on a serious note, 800,000+ people should not have that access. That is crazy to think about.

  
  I had a Top Secret SI level security clearance in the military as part of the Army Security Agency (ASA). Just because a person has that level of clearance doesn't mean they automatically have access to all forms of national secrets.
  
  In fact there's a thing in the intelligence arena called "need to know." If you don't have a need to know then you don't need to know. And believe me high-level command takes steps to insure that policy is followed.
  
  Do I think it's a bit crazy for 850,000 people to have that level of clearance? Yes, but I'm not losing sleep over it.
• I Wear Pants

  jhay78;427309 wrote:I've often wondered about the existence of the Department of Homeland Security. After all, isn't the Department of Defense, by its very name, supposed to secure the homeland?
  I will say that defending its borders and keeping its citizens safe should be top priorities of any government, and the Constitution gives our federal government that authority. But something's definitely out of whack with the current system.

  
  DHS should never have existed.
• majorspark

  

  I Wear Pants;427712 wrote:DHS should never have existed.

  
  The fur went up on my neck the moment this department was proposed. A needless expansion of government. This department as any, has now come into perpetual existence.
• IggyPride00

  

  majorspark;427716 wrote:The fur went up on my neck the moment this department was proposed. A needless expansion of government. This department as any, has now come into perpetual existence.

  
  When people always list off the wrongs of Conservatives be it excessive spending, tax cuts we couldn't afford, wars, the prescription drug plan, I often forget about the creation of the DHS. It was the single largest bureaucracy created since FDR was in office if I am not mistaken, and more than anything else listed is probably one of the biggest black eyes of that era for Conservatives.
  
  I hadn't really given it much thought until really reading this article, and it is truly stunning to think an expansion of government that large happened under a Republican President/House/Senate. As Conservatives, we truly did lose our minds for about a 6 year period there when you take the long view of how we actually governed.
  
  I think I heard I CNN tonight something like 800 government buildings (and they aren't 2 story shacks) devoted to Homeland Security were built in the past 9 years. It is just madness.
  
  Looking back now I am beginning to think 9-11 just became a handy excuse for the governing elites (both parties) to set-up a quasi police state to shred our civil liberties knowing that in normal times Americans would never have permitted government to intrude into our lives the way it has, and has the potential too in the future now that the infrastructure is in place.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  Part II: National Security Inc.
  
  http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/articles/national-security-inc/print/
• Belly35

  

  With all those people working for the Security of America ..do you think just a few could looking into Obama Birth Certification and Obama Harvard records and Vera Baker? Oh! One more thing how about an up date on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge ….documents.
  
  Never mind ........... What goes around comes around sooner or later (then the truth will be told)
• Tiernan

  Jobs are jobs...if increased Intel activity or other security actions are creating additional employment opportunities why bitch about it? If you ain't doing anything illegal or ashamed about, you shouldn't be concerned about Big Brother watching. London currently has 65% of the entire city streets & subways under video surveliance and it deters crime knowing someone maybe watching. Hell we get our panties in a wad over here becuz one video traffic monitor is installed in downtown C-bus.
• jhay78

  

  Tiernan;427867 wrote:Jobs are jobs...if increased Intel activity or other security actions are creating additional employment opportunities why bitch about it? If you ain't doing anything illegal or ashamed about, you shouldn't be concerned about Big Brother watching. London currently has 65% of the entire city streets & subways under video surveliance and it deters crime knowing someone maybe watching. Hell we get our panties in a wad over here becuz one video traffic monitor is installed in downtown C-bus.

  
  Government jobs are not "jobs", in the sense that they don't accurately reflect a country's economic activity.
• Tiernan

  ^^^
  Do the people who have Govt jobs pay taxes like the rest of us? Yes they do. Do the people who have Govt jobs spend their money out in society supporting millions of others who depend on their spending? Yes they do. Now STFU.
• I Wear Pants

  Belly35;427814 wrote:With all those people working for the Security of America ..do you think just a few could looking into Obama Birth Certification and Obama Harvard records and Vera Baker? Oh! One more thing how about an up date on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge ….documents.
  
  Never mind ........... What goes around comes around sooner or later (then the truth will be told)

  You wouldn't believe Obama's birth certificate was real if it was in your hands.
• I Wear Pants

  Tiernan;427890 wrote:^^^
  Do the people who have Govt jobs pay taxes like the rest of us? Yes they do. Do the people who have Govt jobs spend their money out in society supporting millions of others who depend on their spending? Yes they do. Now STFU.

  While what you're saying is true, government employees do spend money and stimulate the economy it's not quite the same as non-government jobs. Otherwise they'd just hire everyone and we'd all be happy.
• Footwedge

  Tiernan;427867 wrote:Jobs are jobs...if increased Intel activity or other security actions are creating additional employment opportunities why bitch about it? If you ain't doing anything illegal or ashamed about, you shouldn't be concerned about Big Brother watching. London currently has 65% of the entire city streets & subways under video surveliance and it deters crime knowing someone maybe watching. Hell we get our panties in a wad over here becuz one video traffic monitor is installed in downtown C-bus.

  
  Yes certain government jobs do add wealth to our economy either directly or indirectly. For example, infrastructure work paid for by the government is highly needed and maintains our wealth. But most of the jobs do not fall into that category. True, jobs are jobs. In fact, I think the feds should force unemployment recipients to do government work to keep the checks coming...at least part time.
  
  As to the subject of the thread. Increased home land security was needed to some degree and although I question some of the tactics, we have been successful in thwarting attacks.. I'm less apt to criticize this type of overkill....but for God sake, why blow 150 billion a year fighting needless and unnecessary wars in Bananistan? Dumb, dumb, dumb.
• jhay78

  

  Tiernan;427890 wrote:^^^
  Do the people who have Govt jobs pay taxes like the rest of us? Yes they do. Do the people who have Govt jobs spend their money out in society supporting millions of others who depend on their spending? Yes they do. Now STFU.

  
  Is digging a ditch a job? Yes it is.
  
  Is filling it back in a job? Yes it is.
  
  So, from the government's perspective, if 300 people dig a ditch, and 300 people fill it back in, then, whoopee, we've created 600 jobs! But no wealth has been created and no products or services have been added to our economy. Yes some govt jobs are needed, but many, many of them are needless and wasteful, thus the topic of the thread.