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Louisianna: Obama has done worse than Bush (Katrina vs Oil)

  • isadore
    Talking about good old saultly, helluva a guy, hillie always used to take his words so much to heart. Interesting that you have so much cynicism about an expression on the internet but none about the power of an enormous corporation to escape its just desserts. I am sure its lobbyist are at work, you saw how they had earlier slipped in that 75 million dollar limit on corporate accountability. Wait a few years down the process when all those protections are tucked away in some bill for rest rooms in Denali national park. And of course this case will be dragged through the courts until all of us are long gone, along with the gulf shrimp population.
  • fish82
    isadore;392940 wrote:to some like yourself telling the truth about a murdering corporate entity and its allies is a wrong, I dont think it is wrong.
    Who exactly did they "murder," Mr. Truth Teller? :rolleyes:
  • isadore
    fish82;393055 wrote:Who exactly did they "murder," Mr. Truth Teller? :rolleyes:
    rand, barbara, barton is that you. depraved indifference
    To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendant’s conduct, not the injuries actually resulting.
    http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/depraved-indifference/
  • jmog
    isadore;392929 wrote:Name calling, that’s not nice. Lol

    Nazi Germany did not devolve into an dictatorship because of socialism, that is an idiotic idea. The Nazi theories on race and the fuehrer principle not economic policy made them a dictatorhsip.
    As has been shown by several of the advanced nations of Europe you can have a socialist government without becoming a dictatorship.
    And the economic situation there is a mixed bag with many of their nations doing better than we are. Example Norway.
    http://www.oecd.org/document/42/0,3343,en_2649_33733_44701354_1_1_1_1,00.html

    1. I notice you completely ignored the questions presented and somehow moved to Nazi Germany.
    2. Again I ask, please compare any big oil company's, like BP, profit margin to any average US based company and then tell me they are "greedy", or any more "greedy" than any other profit driven company.
    3. Norway's debt as a % of GDP is rather higher than ours, so please inform me how they are doing so much better than us?
  • fish82
    isadore;393079 wrote:rand, barbara, barton is that you. depraved indifference
    To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendant’s conduct, not the injuries actually resulting.
    http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/depraved-indifference/


    LMAO...see you in court with that one, Sparky. :cool:
  • isadore
    fish82;393088 wrote:LMAO...see you in court with that one, Sparky. :cool:

    11 dead in gulf from their depraved indifference.
    You must be one of those three or a doppelganger to one of them.
  • isadore
    jmog;393082 wrote:1. I notice you completely ignored the questions presented and somehow moved to Nazi Germany.
    2. Again I ask, please compare any big oil company's, like BP, profit margin to any average US based company and then tell me they are "greedy", or any more "greedy" than any other profit driven company.
    3. Norway's debt as a % of GDP is rather higher than ours, so please inform me how they are doing so much better than us?
    who cares what their profit margin is, well you do. All that is important is they made alot of money, they acted greedily and incompetently, costing the lives of 11 men and untold ecological damage to the gulf and economic damage to those people neighboring on it.
    debt as a percentage of GDP is far from the only measure of economic health. Norway as can be seen as well as other european nations are doing well.
  • jmog
    isadore;393107 wrote:who cares what their profit margin is, well you do. All that is important is they made alot of money, they acted greedily and incompetently, costing the lives of 11 men and untold ecological damage to the gulf and economic damage to those people neighboring on it.
    debt as a percentage of GDP is far from the only measure of economic health. Norway as can be seen as well as other european nations are doing well.

    Who cares what their profit margin is? About every business person on the planet would laugh at you for that comment. That is the most likely the BIGGEST thing a company cares about, is their profit margin.

    If the oil companies are so "greedy", then why aren't their profit margins higher than any average joe schmo company out there?

    Don't get me wrong, I believe BP is at fault for this and will have to pay, but that's what courts are for, not the executive branch. What they just did is unconstitutional.
  • majorspark
    isadore;393099 wrote:11 dead in gulf from their depraved indifference.
    You must be one of those three or a doppelganger to one of them.

    I asked you earlier and you failed to answer the question. Whose actions have cost the lives of more people BP or the Federal goverment?
  • BoatShoes
    jmog;393123 wrote:What they just did is unconstitutional.

    Not according to Contemporary Conservative theories of Executive Power; Even in domestic affairs and not just foreign. See John Yoo who was a former member of the Bush Administration who recently wrote an op-ed in the NY times arguing against Elena Kagan for potentially having restrictive views on executive power.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo

    Maybe you disagree personally....but these are the theories of executive power that have been advanced since even the Reagan Administration and Conservatives have endorsed them (this is one area where libertarians and contemporary conservatives divide).

    They sure talk about Madison and Jefferson a lot but boy they prefer Hamilton's opinion on Article II.
  • BoatShoes
    jmog;393123 wrote: If the oil companies are so "greedy", then why aren't their profit margins higher than any average joe schmo company out there?

    Oil and Gas Exploration companies have an avg. profit margin of 9.7%, the 23rd highest avg. profit margin of all industries (Health Insurers are only #86 and the libs demonized them). biz.yahoo.com/p/sum_qpmd.html.

    It's also important to talk about the number of dollars being received because of economic notions of the marginal utility of dollars. BP took in a revenue of 246 billion dollars....enough to be th 34th richest nation in the world if it were a country. Say their profit marge was cut in half...they still made more than $100 billion.

    FWIW, I'm not against BP getting rich and making billions...
  • queencitybuckeye
    BoatShoes;393135 wrote:Not according to Contemporary Conservative theories of Executive Power; Even in domestic affairs and not just foreign. See John Yoo who was a former member of the Bush Administration who recently wrote an op-ed in the NY times arguing against Elena Kagan for potentially having restrictive views on executive power.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yoo

    Maybe you disagree personally....but these are the theories of executive power that have been advanced since even the Reagan Administration and Conservatives have endorsed them (this is one area where libertarians and contemporary conservatives divide).

    They sure talk about Madison and Jefferson a lot but boy they prefer Hamilton's opinion on Article II.

    The last I checked, the words of John Yoo have no force in law.
  • BoatShoes
    queencitybuckeye;393151 wrote:The last I checked, the words of John Yoo have no force in law.

    Oh Really? Him and his boys argued to get the the decision in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld that allows the executive branch to detain a U.S. citizen deemed an "enemy combatant"; and they can choose to have this U.S. Citizen challenge his detention in front of a military tribunal where there's no bar on hearsay rather than an Article III Court. (I could understand maybe a non-u.s. citzen....but man, I have to say I think going back all the way to Aristotle, citizenship is something unique and special...but I digress. I suppose they're smarter than I am.)

    Ideas have consequences. Maybe Mr. Yoo's own words uttered from his mouth aren't written on statutes anywhere...but his ideas all over actual law.

    And, tell that to the guys at Guantanamo who got waterboarded based upon memos written by Yoo suggesting that such actions were within the scope of the Executive Power. Maybe he was right and justified...but nonetheless, to act like he was just some pie in sky philosopher who didn't affect real flesh and blood human beings is, I'd have to say, wrong. JMO.
  • fish82
    BoatShoes;393157 wrote:Oh Really? Him and his boys argued to get the the decision in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld that allows the executive branch to detain a U.S. citizen deemed an "enemy combatant"; and they can choose to have this U.S. Citizen challenge his detention in front of a military tribunal where there's no bar on hearsay rather than an Article III Court. (I could understand maybe a non-u.s. citzen....but man, I have to say I think going back all the way to Aristotle, citizenship is something unique and special...but I digress. I suppose they're smarter than I am.)

    Ideas have consequences. Maybe Mr. Yoo's own words uttered from his mouth aren't written on statutes anywhere...but his ideas all over actual law.

    And, tell that to the guys at Guantanamo who got waterboarded based upon memos written by Yoo suggesting that such actions were within the scope of the Executive Power. Maybe he was right and justified...but nonetheless, to act like he was just some pie in sky philosopher who didn't affect real flesh and blood human beings is, I'd have to say, wrong. JMO.

    Gotta agree here. Yoo has been a pretty influential dude. I still smile when I think back to him kicking the shit out of Jon Stewart....classic TV. ;)
  • isadore
    majorspark;393126 wrote:I asked you earlier and you failed to answer the question. Whose actions have cost the lives of more people BP or the Federal goverment?
    11 dead thanks to BPs depraved indifference.
  • dwccrew
    isadore;392957 wrote:I have no idea what set of rules you are talking about, but I do have a very good idea about what happened in the gulf. Of course we have folks like you, rand paul and barbara bachman there to put the best interests of bp forward. It was just an unforseeable accident that they should not be held responsible. Lets practice sophistry, lets obfuscate, lets spread around some money, lets bury this deep in drawnout legal proceeding with our inexhaustable supply of corporate legal eagles.

    If thats you Representative Barton, BP says keep up the good work.
    According to your logic, we should try and convict BP before the oil spill is cleaned up? How about we get the leak fixed and then put BP on trial? But you would rather let the leak continue while BP is on trial. All the Louisana wildlife, citizens and fishing industry thank you for not caring enough about them to get the spill cleaned up. You'd rather focus on the execs at BP instead of the top priority, fixing the leak. You don't care about anyone being effected by the leak, you just want to see execs get convicted.
    isadore;393216 wrote:11 dead thanks to BPs depraved indifference.

    You still have not answered the question. How dense are you? Just a little bit or a whole lot? He asked who has caused more deaths, the federal government or BP. You answer with BP has caused 11 deaths. That isn't an answer to the question.
  • isadore
    dwcrew wrote:According to your logic, we should try and convict BP before the oil spill is cleaned up? How about we get the leak fixed and then put BP on trial? But you would rather let the leak continue while BP is on trial. All the Louisana wildlife, citizens and fishing industry thank you for not caring enough about them to get the spill cleaned up. You'd rather focus on the execs at BP instead of the top priority, fixing the leak. You don't care about anyone being effected by the leak, you just want to see execs get convicted.
    According to my logic. We had this spill for 2 months and BP is not near stopping, let alone cleaning up. But of course Mr Paul, your worry is for BP.
    2 months and no real relief. Mr. Cornyn they saw a chance for profit, they claimed they could drill safely, Ms. Bachman they claimed the site had all the necessary safety devises in operation to prevent a spill, Mr. Barton they claimed they had a cleanup plan to protect the enviroment. Mr sparks they claimed their workers were safe at that site. 11 dead because of their greed and incompetence. But of course who do you put your trust in to solve this situation after killing 11 of their employees, causing the worst environmental disaster in our history that continues to this day. So after these past two months who do you put your faith in mr. crew, Bp, of course.
  • fish82
    isadore;393292 wrote:According to my logic. We had this spill for 2 months and BP is not near stopping, let alone cleaning up. But of course Mr Paul, your worry is for BP.
    2 months and no real relief. Mr. Cornyn they saw a chance for profit, they claimed they could drill safely, Ms. Bachman they claimed the site had all the necessary safety devises in operation to prevent a spill, Mr. Barton they claimed they had a cleanup plan to protect the enviroment. Mr sparks they claimed their workers were safe at that site. 11 dead because of their greed and incompetence. But of course who do you put your trust in to solve this situation after killing 11 of their employees, causing the worst environmental disaster in our history that continues to this day. So after these past two months who do you put your faith in mr. crew, Bp, of course.
    Yeah, we should put our faith in the Administration. They obviously have a firm farking grasp on the situation.

    http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bp-oil-spill-gov-bobby-jindals-wishes-crude/story?id=10946379

    This is what's going on while Henry Waxman strokes his cock all day in his stupid hearing.

    The administration rubber stamped every single evil deed that you allege...yet you have yet to mention their failures. That speaks volumes.
  • isadore
    fish82;393349 wrote:Yeah, we should put our faith in the Administration. They obviously have a firm farking grasp on the situation.

    http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bp-oil-spill-gov-bobby-jindals-wishes-crude/story?id=10946379

    This is what's going on while Henry Waxman strokes his cock all day in his stupid hearing.

    The administration rubber stamped every single evil deed that you allege...yet you have yet to mention their failures. That speaks volumes.
    Yes put your trust in BP, allow until the spill is over then let it all be settled in court. Great idea.
    Anderson Cooper showed a BP document that showed that soon after the spill they knew that 40-60 thousand barrels a day were being spilled, but they were telling the world it was 1000 barrels.
    No wonder the resources were not there.
    And who do they want to judge them.
    “Judge favored by BP has financial ties to oil industry”
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/17/bp.judge.oil.ties/index.html?hpt=T1
  • majorspark
    isadore;393421 wrote:Yes put your trust in BP, allow until the spill is over then let it all be settled in court. Great idea.
    Anderson Cooper showed a BP document that showed that soon after the spill they knew that 40-60 thousand barrels a day were being spilled, but they were telling the world it was 1000 barrels.
    No wonder the resources were not there.
    And who do they want to judge them.
    “Judge favored by BP has financial ties to oil industry”
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/17/bp.judge.oil.ties/index.html?hpt=T1
    Who does the judge work for?
  • isadore
    majorspark;393453 wrote:Who does the judge work for?
    who he will work for seems to be the question. BP sure wants him, I wonder why.
  • majorspark
    isadore;393498 wrote:who he will work for seems to be the question. BP sure wants him, I wonder why.

    He works for the federal government. Just like those federal regulators that fish mentioned. BP and the feds are likely pretty comfortable bedfellows.

    The feds are playing guys like you like a fiddle. Your head is so embedded in uncle Sam's ass you can't even see it. They have fooled you into demanding a bigger bed for them to screw in.
  • isadore
    Well sadly the government has been infected with anti regulation pro-business sycophants, like Judge Hughes, a Reagan appointee with a much to self serving relationship with the oil industry. Of course he makes a joke of that pipe dream that the courts will make BP pay. People like Representative Barton who invested in one of the part owners of the oil drilling platform. It would make America’s job more easy if these types were swept from the government. Hopefully the actions of these sympathizers during this continuing example of corporate malfeasance will sweep them from the government. Exile for Rand Paul, Barbara Bachman, Rep Barton, Senator Cornyn, Judge Hughes and the rest. Then the federal government can do its job of protecting us from corporate greed and incompetence.
    We can only hope.
  • KnightRyder
    Belly35;391498 wrote:Because this poll comes from Fox News it holds little value by the LLS ( Liberal, Left Socialist) ...now if you post the more incriminating poll by AP
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100615/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_ap_poll_obama_oil_spill or
    http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2010/06/fallout-from-spill.html ....... then the LLS will make a comment that they don’t take polls serious. They have their head in the sand and can’t see the beach.

    fox news is only creditable with tose on the right. anyone with a trace of sense ranks fox news right along with the WWE
  • majorspark
    KnightRyder;393709 wrote:fox news is only creditable with tose on the right. anyone with a trace of sense ranks fox news right along with the WWE
    Since you appear to be an expert when it comes to news and information. Please provide us with a list of credible news sources.