College Degrees and Masters..Are they worth the investment?

• Footwedge

  Apparently not according to this guy. The percentage increase in tuition versus the percentage increase in overall income of Americans shows how an industry can empty out the pockets of hard working American families and saddle their kids with insurmountable debt.
  
  Just another bi-product of a perpetual sinking economy and the desperate measures people will take to "insure" a quality future lifestyle.
  
  This is what happens when the private sector employment has dropped from 48% down to 41% in just over a year.
  
  People complain about the redistribution of wealth in this country....and blame it on the government's policies. Plenty of wealth distribution going on to the schools, administrators, professors...not to mention the banksters that finance this crap.
  
  Anyone else of the highly educated feeling fleeced by this ruse?
  
  http://www.lewrockwell.com/pr/dear-office.html
• dwccrew

  

  I believe it all depends on what your degree is. There are so many worthless degrees out there, but there are still some degrees that are worth pursuing I.E. and IT degree or many medical field degrees.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake-up-fellow-law-professors-to.html
  
  Required reading.
  
  For comparison's sake - I graduated law school with a total combined debt with undergrad of about $50,000, and I paid my parents another $10,000 in car upkeeps, rent help, etc. That was in 1999.
  
  I awakened back in '05 when a young co-worker told me she had nearly $200,000 in loans. Speechless. Didn't know what to say, and don't know how she'll pay it off. One of our best friends in town is an '08 grad from a state university, and still ended up with nearly double my debt. He pays more a month in loans than he does with his mortgage. Where is this money going?
• BoatShoes

  Manhattan Buckeye;391708 wrote:http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake-up-fellow-law-professors-to.html
  
  Required reading.
  
  For comparison's sake - I graduated law school with a total combined debt with undergrad of about $50,000, and I paid my parents another $10,000 in car upkeeps, rent help, etc. That was in 1999.
  
  I awakened back in '05 when a young co-worker told me she had nearly $200,000 in loans. Speechless. Didn't know what to say, and don't know how she'll pay it off. One of our best friends in town is an '08 grad from a state university, and still ended up with nearly double my debt. He pays more a month in loans than he does with his mortgage. Where is this money going?

  
  That Blog Post is spot on. I went to a "third tier toilet school" for law school and honestly the only reason I have job is because I do tax work. I have friends in who graduated top 15% without jobs. It's going to blow up. We were told our whole lives that the key to getting ahead was more and more education...but it seems to me that doesn't seem to be the case.
  
  One of my buddies' brothers never went to school and just worked on the family farm...he's paying a mortgage instead of paying off student loans that got him next to worthless human capital.
  
  I think this is a ticking time bomb personally....
• Websurfinbird

  

  What you major in college may not matter so much, I know folks who are in completely different careers from what they studied. But I'd guess for at least 95% of white collar jobs you won't be let in for an interview without at the very least an associate's degree.
  
  I think graduate degrees are a different story. I think that really depends on the field. Obviously you need them for law and medicine. I thought about getting a master's in journalism but realized soon after I started working that a master's would not guarantee me a higher salary and I'd just be more in debt. So my regular English degree will have to suffice.
  
  What I can't stand are perpetual students, folks who get a bunch of degrees because they're scared to face the real world or they just have no clue what to do with themselves.
• Al Bundy

  In many cases the debt is so large because students choose to take out loans to cover all living expenses instead of working during the school year.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  Indeed, working with an income source helps out to some degree. But in graduate programs many schools frown upon working, in liberal arts and science programs usually students are teaching in addition to their studies, and in professional programs (medicine, law, business) the studies are deemed to arduous to take on an occupational endeavor.
• BoatShoes

  Manhattan Buckeye;391857 wrote:Indeed, working with an income source helps out to some degree. But in graduate programs many schools frown upon working, in liberal arts and science programs usually students are teaching in addition to their studies, and in professional programs (medicine, law, business) the studies are deemed to arduous to take on an occupational endeavor.

  
  Yeah in fact, the American Bar Association disallows you from working beyond a certain number of hours a week....nonetheless, it seems like the only way to get an offer was to let yourself get worked into the ground while clerking. JMHO.
• believer

  

  Keeping in mind I received my bachelor's degree back in 1983, I only amassed a student loan debt of $3,000. There ARE ways of financing your education without necessarily graduating in debt by tens of thousands of dollars.
  
  How about deferring college for a few years and save? What about seeking financial aid and grants? Work study?
  
  I joined the Army to qualify for the GI Bill and then "double-dipped" by re-enlisting in the Ohio Air National Guard who paid 100% of my tuition. The Guard also gave me a guaranteed summer job!
  
  Massive student loans aren't the only ways to finance your education.
• LJ

  

  Manhattan Buckeye;391708 wrote:http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/06/wake-up-fellow-law-professors-to.html
  
  Required reading.
  
  For comparison's sake - I graduated law school with a total combined debt with undergrad of about $50,000, and I paid my parents another $10,000 in car upkeeps, rent help, etc. That was in 1999.
  
  I awakened back in '05 when a young co-worker told me she had nearly $200,000 in loans. Speechless. Didn't know what to say, and don't know how she'll pay it off. One of our best friends in town is an '08 grad from a state university, and still ended up with nearly double my debt. He pays more a month in loans than he does with his mortgage. Where is this money going?

  
  At least law is a very upward mobile profession. My gf's vet school debt is $200k (yes, for vet school alone) and only 10% of veterinarians nationwide make over $110k. Most of the people in her graduating class were jealous of her $52k first job. It's madness.
• LJ

  

  believer;391968 wrote:Keeping in mind I received my bachelor's degree back in 1983, I only amassed a student loan debt of $3,000. There ARE ways of financing your education without necessarily graduating in debt by tens of thousands of dollars.
  
  How about deferring college for a few years and save? What about seeking financial aid and grants? Work study?
  
  I joined the Army to qualify for the GI Bill and then "double-dipped" by re-enlisting in the Ohio Air National Guard who paid 100% of my tuition. The Guard also gave me a guaranteed summer job!
  
  Massive student loans aren't the only ways to finance your education.

  
  Depends on what program you want. The U.S. only pays off $50,000 or, 1/4 of vet school debt if you enlist after you graduate.
• LJ

  

  Al Bundy;391826 wrote:In many cases the debt is so large because students choose to take out loans to cover all living expenses instead of working during the school year.

  
  I'd like to see you have 40 hours of lectures and labs per week plus studying plus your required research project for your doctorate program and hold a job that could pay the bills. There just are not enough hours in the day. Most vet students hold a 2-4 hour a week job just to keep a vet clinic on their resume or to keep a working relationship in order to secure a job after graduation.
  
  And your clinics year when you are doing 60 hours m-f and another 15 hours on the weekend in the vet hospital, it is literally impossible to hold another job. Infact I don't think you are allowed to hold another job.
• BoatShoes

  Even while working part time, it's tough to not have loans for just a bachelor's degree. My gf went to state school and got a business degree and was a server the whole time and qualified for some federal aid. She still had to get Key Bank alternative loans. She only got a B.A., worked the whole time and went to state school and still has $50,000 in student loans. She was a mortgage banker for two years and recently got laid off. One of her bosses had started at Quicken Loans when he was 18....no college degree. Why didn't my guidance counselors tell me I could move to Cleveland and work for Quicken Loans and make six figures writing ARMS??? Her boss doesn't get laid off cus he's been there since he was 18...she does cus she spent 4 years in college. My Guidance Counselor's told me I was in National Honor Society and the only way to succeed is to go to College. I would've skipped that whole thing and read wikipedia. It's a scam and nobody wastes money like public universities. Why cut costs when you know that student loans will just cover any increase in tuition and every graduating senior is being pushed to our institution????
• believer

  

  BoatShoes;392023 wrote:Even while working part time, it's tough to not have loans for just a bachelor's degree. My gf went to state school and got a business degree and was a server the whole time and qualified for some federal aid. She still had to get Key Bank alternative loans. She only got a B.A., worked the whole time and went to state school and still has $50,000 in student loans. She was a mortgage banker for two years and recently got laid off. One of her bosses had started at Quicken Loans when he was 18....no college degree. Why didn't my guidance counselors tell me I could move to Cleveland and work for Quicken Loans and make six figures writing ARMS??? Her boss doesn't get laid off cus he's been there since he was 18...she does cus she spent 4 years in college. My Guidance Counselor's told me I was in National Honor Society and the only way to succeed is to go to College. I would've skipped that whole thing and read wikipedia. It's a scam and nobody wastes money like public universities. Why cut costs when you know that student loans will just cover any increase in tuition and every graduating senior is being pushed to our institution????

  
  
  Ii feel your pain I really do. Unfortunately it still holds true that at least a bachelor's degree opens more doors than a high school diploma.
  
  Since I'm the only person in my family that has earned a college degree, there's also a certain intangible satisfaction in having accomplished something nobody else has. A degree is also a reasonable yardstick in determining if someone has the organization skills and determination to accomplish something not everyone is cut out to do.
  
  Do I think universities themselves are scammers and schemers? Yes to a certain degree. Still I can honestly say that my college experience was very helpful to me and I can see applications of it in daily life not just the workplace.
• sleeper

  

  Go to Ohio State, anything less you are wasting your time, anything more, you are wasting your money.
• believer

  

  sleeper;392062 wrote:Go to Ohio State, anything less you are wasting your time, anything more, you are wasting your money.

  True. I think the Feds should shut down all institutions of higher learning except for Ohio State and require the Buckeyes to play with themselves.
• I Wear Pants

  College is getting impossible to pay for. But no one will do anything about it. This is the thing I'm most disappointed in Obama about, being a student and all. I remember his first state of the union talking about making education affordable and it sure as hell isn't. Of course it isn't all his fault. He can't make the institutions do anything they don't want to do.
  
  Edit: It isn't all about the piece of paper called a diploma either. You are supposed to learn things in college. If you aren't learning anything you should probably not be going.
• Manhattan Buckeye

  I Wear Pants;392084 wrote:College is getting impossible to pay for. But no one will do anything about it. This is the thing I'm most disappointed in Obama about, being a student and all. I remember his first state of the union talking about making education affordable and it sure as hell isn't. Of course it isn't all his fault. He can't make the institutions do anything they don't want to do.
  
  Edit: It isn't all about the piece of paper called a diploma either. You are supposed to learn things in college. If you aren't learning anything you should probably not be going.

  
  There was a topic about this several months ago, certainly Obama can't force schools to lower tuition, but it doesn't seem to be on the front burner of any change:
  
  "To make college more affordable, this bill will finally end the unwarranted taxpayer subsidies that go to banks for student loans. Instead, let's take that money and give families a $10,000 tax credit for four years of college and increase Pell Grants.
  
  And let's tell another 1 million students that, when they graduate, they will be required to pay only 10 percent of their income on student loans, and all of their debt will be forgiven after 20 years, and forgiven after 10 years if they choose a career in public service, because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they chose to go to college.
  
  And, by the way, it's time for colleges and universities to get serious about cutting their own costs, because they, too, have a responsibility to help solve this problem."
  
  So he wants more subsidies and market manipulation that forces up costs, but on the receiving end it is just a "by the way."
• Belly35

  

  You are worthless now under the Public Servant than you where in the Bush years ...... how that spreading the wealth sound now......
  You and your degree are meaningless because there less job to apply for and more of you with that same degree or better bidding for the employment. ........does that give you hope .....
  So between those two facts.................... you will have little change coming your way in a long time.........
  That something all you unemployed Liberal, Left, Socialist can believe in………..now
• BoatShoes

  Manhattan Buckeye;392096 wrote:There was a topic about this several months ago, certainly Obama can't force schools to lower tuition, but it doesn't seem to be on the front burner of any change:
  
  "To make college more affordable, this bill will finally end the unwarranted taxpayer subsidies that go to banks for student loans. Instead, let's take that money and give families a $10,000 tax credit for four years of college and increase Pell Grants.
  
  And let's tell another 1 million students that, when they graduate, they will be required to pay only 10 percent of their income on student loans, and all of their debt will be forgiven after 20 years, and forgiven after 10 years if they choose a career in public service, because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they chose to go to college.
  
  And, by the way, it's time for colleges and universities to get serious about cutting their own costs, because they, too, have a responsibility to help solve this problem."
  
  So he wants more subsidies and market manipulation that forces up costs, but on the receiving end it is just a "by the way."

  
  And even still, that does nothing about the kids who graduated this last decade with loans from Sallie Mae and alternative private student loans (which they can't discharge) that the students just aren't paying because there's no jobs and their degrees are worthless. IMO, it's just like the mortgage crisis waiting to happen...at least as many people won't be defaulting I imagine. I'd be in the same boat but I pretty much just got lucky. Truthfully.
  
  The worst part is...say you invested $12,000 into the stock market, and it turned out to be a bad investment....you could try and cut your losses. If you've made a $12,000 investment in education, you can't divest yourself of worthless human capital.
• iclfan2

  

  To become a CPA, you pretty much need to get a masters because you don't have enough hours just by getting a Bachelor's. So if you want to get hired by a Big 4 you kinda have to have an advanced degree.
• LJ

  

  iclfan2;392179 wrote:To become a CPA, you pretty much need to get a masters because you don't have enough hours just by getting a Bachelor's. So if you want to get hired by a Big 4 you kinda have to have an advanced degree.

  
  5 year programs son.
• iclfan2

  

  I got a masters in Accountancy in 5 years. Just saying it is pretty much necessary to go more than 4 years to become one.
• Al Bundy

  Most professional field require more that a 4 year degree today.
• I Wear Pants

  Belly35;392110 wrote:You are worthless now under the Public Servant than you where in the Bush years ...... how that spreading the wealth sound now......
  You and your degree are meaningless because there less job to apply for and more of you with that same degree or better bidding for the employment. ........does that give you hope .....
  So between those two facts.................... you will have little change coming your way in a long time.........
  That something all you unemployed Liberal, Left, Socialist can believe in………..now

  Right, Obama caused the recession that started before he got into office.