Dems hid damning health care report until after vote

• stlouiedipalma

  I don't know why all of you are getting so upset about this. The Republicans have assured us that they are going to repeal and replace this legislation. At least, that was their rallying cry after it was signed into law. Please don't tell me that they have said "no" to "repeal and replace" already.
• BoatShoes

  Cleveland Buck wrote:

  BoatShoes wrote: Well, what if the CBO's predictions come to fruition?

  Has it ever come to fruition before? Then I guess we don't have to worry about that.

  Well even if that's true, I would hope your general disdain for inefficient, excessive coffee break taking, leave work at 4:55, government bureaucrats also includes the ones who are actuaries and economists in the Department of Health and Human Services to the point where you might doubt the efficacy of this report as well, no? But, I imagine since it more aligns with your idealized conception of the world that you would find this particular report an exception to this rule.
  
  Now, I'm not saying this report is a bunch of baloney...but shouldn't you?
• BoatShoes

  ptown_trojans_1 wrote: The right wing is just like the left wing, in that it is finding every little thing, blowing it way out of proportion and claiming this administration will destroys us all. We heard the same thing during the Bush years from 02-08.

  ^This
• Cleveland Buck

  

  BoatShoes wrote: Well even if that's true, I would hope your general disdain for inefficient, excessive coffee break taking, leave work at 4:55, government bureaucrats also includes the ones who are actuaries and economists in the Department of Health and Human Services to the point where you might doubt the efficacy of this report as well, no? But, I imagine since it more aligns with your idealized conception of the world that you would find this particular report an exception to this rule.
  
  Now, I'm not saying this report is a bunch of baloney...but shouldn't you?

  I didn't read the report. If someone who gets a federal government paycheck wrote it, I would take it in the appropriate perspective.
• believer

  

  ptown_trojans_1 wrote:The hatred DC is so thick, rightfully so in some aspects, but the city is not full of corrupt, evil people that just want to suck all the money away from you.

  In just a few short years, tell that to the Americans who might generally opt-out of paying for health care insurance as a matter of personal choice but now face a hefty federal fine under our new health care interference laws for failure to opt-in because the Feds want their insurance premium dollars to help pay for another person's health care costs in the name of fairness and evening the playing field.
  

  ptown_trojans_1 wrote:Am I surprised by the report, no. Do I think it was purposely held to impact votes, no. Reports are usually held up for various reasons such as institutional squabbling over recommendations.

  C'mon P-town. Really? :dodgy:
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  believer wrote:

  ptown_trojans_1 wrote:The hatred DC is so thick, rightfully so in some aspects, but the city is not full of corrupt, evil people that just want to suck all the money away from you.

  In just a few short years, tell that to the Americans who might generally opt-out of paying for health care insurance as a matter of personal choice but now face a hefty federal fine under our new health care interference laws for failure to opt-in because the Feds want their insurance premium dollars to help pay for another person's health care costs in the name of fairness and evening the playing field.

  That is one narrow part of the city, and that is your one view. This is city is much larger than just healthcare, as many other issues are being talking about, studied, debated, etc.
  
  You sort of prove my point. That you are taking one issue and generalizing it over the whole city, for the government, NGO and private sectors.
  

  ptown_trojans_1 wrote:Am I surprised by the report, no. Do I think it was purposely held to impact votes, no. Reports are usually held up for various reasons such as institutional squabbling over recommendations.

  C'mon P-town. Really? :dodgy:

  Yeah, really. The inner workings of a government study or report is very tedious and annoying in some sense as agencies fight over different language, facts, etc. It is a common practice.
• Mr. 300

  

  Then I guess DC is full of idiots.
• Little Danny

  

  P-town,
  
  I respect you and find you to be a rational poster. However, I feel you are making too many excuses for your boys in Washington, DC. This is one of the key points that people in the beltway do not understnad about the rest of the country--- the people are sick of excuses from Washington and being told that things are so complex that they would not understand. The American populace is not as stupid as DC insiders would believe.
  
  Frankly, your post above is not all to different than an employee would make to one of their bosses when they get their performance review at the end of the year. The employee would point out that they are doing some good stuff at their desk and it is not as if they are sitting there everyday trying to come up with ways to not be productive. The reports that were due were held up due to some institutional squabbling over recommendations. You would explain your bosses's concerns is a gross misrepresentation of the complexities that are going on with the organization.
  
  To take a quote from the movie Ghostbusters: "Personally, I liked the University; they gave us money and facilities, we didn't have to produce anything. You've never been out of college. You don't know what it's like out there. I've worked in the private sector--they expect results".
  
  If Toyota or Goldman Sachs were to with hold a study, you can damn guarantee there would be a match lit under their ass in the form of a senate hearing. If it were discovered that Toyota or Goldman Sachs withheld information, you better believe that Katie C., Brian Williams, et al. would be on DC telling the viewing audience how evil these companies are.
• cbus4life

  You need to clarify what you mean by "DC."
  
  Sounds ridiculous to keep on saying "the people in DC, those in DC," etc., etc.
  
  As Ptown has said, you can't make generalizations about an entire freaking city.
  
  I think this goes both ways...there is an irrational disgust for those "in DC," when in fact that disgust, if that is even warranted, should be directed at a minority of those there.
  
  I mean, hell, i'm currently working on a project with the Library of Congress. Seems ridiculous to lump every group "in DC" in with whatever it is you disgust because they happen to be in the city.
  
  They aren't a bunch of evil, manipulative, stuck-up liberal snobs, as many would like you to believe. Countless groups/people/organizations doing honest, important work.
• Belly35

  

  When refering to the Federal Goverment or any aspect of goverment, goverment employment or services or department ...can we use the term Public Servants
  
  Public Servant Obama, Public Servant Congress, Public Servant Library Worker, Public Servant HHS,
  
  I think by using the Public Servant send a on going message of who goverment is and who they work for and what there real profession is..... and the department or ogangization within goverment the Public Servant is a reminder their commitmnet to We The People.
• cbus4life

  I think anyone with an ounce of intellect knows that they are public servants, not sure why we need to refer to them all that way...
• Cleveland Buck

  

  cbus4life wrote: I think anyone with an ounce of intellect knows that they are public servants, not sure why we need to refer to them all that way...

  Because they think the public serves them, not the other way around.
• jhay78

  

  ptown_trojans_1 wrote: Most corrupt in history? Worst administration in history? Come on guys.
  
  Obama is not sitting in the office right now scheming up ways to destroy this country and laughing his ass off in a devilish grin. This administration is not corrupt. Or at least not as corrupt as the previous 5 administrations (Nixon Watergate, Reagan Iran/Contra, Clinton Lewinsky/ NSC corruption w/ Berger).
  Not to mention all the shady President's during the 19th century, which people seem to always forget, or how about Teapot Dome?
  
  The right wing is just like the left wing, in that it is finding every little thing, blowing it way out of proportion and claiming this administration will destroy us all. We heard the same thing during the Bush years from 02-08.
  
  As to truth in DC, I'd say there is actually some good stuff that comes out of this city, in think tanks, NGOs, the State Department, Defense, and yes even some Congressional Committees. The hatred DC is so thick, rightfully so in some aspects, but the city is not full of corrupt, evil people that just want to suck all the money away from you. That is just a gross misrepresentation of the complexities that are going on here.
  
  Am I surprised by the report, no. Do I think it was purposely held to impact votes, no. Reports are usually held up for various reasons such as institutional squabbling over recommendations. Remember, the administration's Nuclear Posture Review took 4 months longer due to internal debate and discussion. Yet, people think that the administration is evil, just like people thought Bush was evil. It is funny how the script has flipped.

  Way too naive there, ptown.
• Belly35

  

  cbus4life wrote: I think anyone with an ounce of intellect knows that they are public servants, not sure why we need to refer to them all that way...

  Are we sure they know or have that ounce of intellect or is that a assumption on your part because you find it offensive and degrading to be called a Public Servant. You are what you are Public Servant to serve the public. Famous words: “You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig”
• cbus4life

  Well, i have been a public servant before, and no, i don't think it is offensive or degrading, i took pride in it.
• QuakerOats

  jhay78 wrote:
  Way too naive there, ptown.

  He's still a young buck ...................... give him time .... time always tells.
• QuakerOats

  stlouiedipalma wrote: I don't know why all of you are getting so upset about this. The Republicans have assured us that they are going to repeal and replace this legislation. At least, that was their rallying cry after it was signed into law. Please don't tell me that they have said "no" to "repeal and replace" already.

  When an administration and a congress continues to spew policy and legislation that is damning from a multitude of perspectives, then there is nothing more noble than being the party of 'no'! God Bless 'em.
• cbus4life

  QuakerOats wrote:

  jhay78 wrote:
  Way too naive there, ptown.

  He's still a young buck ...................... give him time .... time always tells.

  He's the only one who's actually given a real opinion on here, instead of just spouting off clever one liners and the like.
  
  I'm actually quite impressed with him, i think he's pretty level-headed, considers things, doesn't jump to conclusions or inane generalizations.
  
  Maybe he isn't being naive, but has actually seen and experienced things that back up his opinion?
  
  Just because one is "young" doesn't mean he only thinks the way he does because of his age.
  
  I completely understand the skepticism in regards to what goes on in D.C. in certain areas, but i think Ptown hit the nail on the head.
  
  He's refreshing, someone who actually doesn't see things in extremes.
• believer

  

  Mr. 300 wrote: Then I guess DC is full of idiots.

  Good guess.
• ptown_trojans_1

  

  Thanks cbus. I try ha.
  

  Little Danny wrote: P-town,
  
  I respect you and find you to be a rational poster. However, I feel you are making too many excuses for your boys in Washington, DC. This is one of the key points that people in the beltway do not understnad about the rest of the country--- the people are sick of excuses from Washington and being told that things are so complex that they would not understand. The American populace is not as stupid as DC insiders would believe.
  
  Frankly, your post above is not all to different than an employee would make to one of their bosses when they get their performance review at the end of the year. The employee would point out that they are doing some good stuff at their desk and it is not as if they are sitting there everyday trying to come up with ways to not be productive. The reports that were due were held up due to some institutional squabbling over recommendations. You would explain your bosses's concerns is a gross misrepresentation of the complexities that are going on with the organization.
  
  To take a quote from the movie Ghostbusters: "Personally, I liked the University; they gave us money and facilities, we didn't have to produce anything. You've never been out of college. You don't know what it's like out there. I've worked in the private sector--they expect results".
  
  If Toyota or Goldman Sachs were to with hold a study, you can damn guarantee there would be a match lit under their ass in the form of a senate hearing. If it were discovered that Toyota or Goldman Sachs withheld information, you better believe that Katie C., Brian Williams, et al. would be on DC telling the viewing audience how evil these companies are.

  I was starting to type this long reply out, but I'm too tired. I'll just say that I was trying DC is complex as there is Gov/ NGO and Private sector here. Does DC include just government, and if so all government, or just some? What about Defense, that is government? What about the Department of Energy NNSA, or the State Department, or the FDA? Or, pick an agency that isn't bad.
  
  The private sector has a huge role in DC, believe it or not. Contractors are everywhere, and do influence reports. Half the time, they are the ones slowing the process of reports as they changing cost parameters.
  
  I have several friends that are contractors that give me different perspectives in the process, one at CSC, a few at Booze and a few at SAIC. I've also have a few friends at GAO, who constantly tell me about the internal dynamics of reports and how the requirements keep shifting, leading to delays. So, I saw the private sector and public sector are the same in some aspects in this regard.
  
  I think you are right about Goldman, as the public cannot stand them right now. I also agree that blame does need to head toward some Congressman and Senators. I don't have boys here in DC, as I can't stand a good bit of them.
  

  jhay78 wrote: Way too naive there, ptown.

  Ehh, hardly. I'm more a rational, realist than anything. I've called bullshit on the Bush is the enemy crowd for years.
  
  

  QuakerOats wrote: He's still a young buck ...................... give him time .... time always tells.

  Doubt it. The more I learn and study, the more I stay moderate. Sorry, I don't listen or accept the wide ends of the spectrum.
  

  believer wrote:

  Mr. 300 wrote: Then I guess DC is full of idiots.

  Good guess.

  I wouldn't call the people I know and work with/ aside idiots. I work beside and for some really smart people.
  I work in a group with Jeffey Lewis, Mort Halperin, Walt Slocumbe, George Perkovich, and Linton Brooks. But, I guess they are idiots.
  Or are you referring to government? Cause even then, I don't think Gates, Mullen, or H. Clinton are idiots. Or, are you referring to Congress?
  
  But, then again, everyone like to generalize. That is like me saying, everyone in Columbus is an idiot.
• believer

  

  ptown_trojans_1 wrote:I wouldn't call the people I know and work with/ aside idiots. I work beside and for some really smart people.
  I work in a group with Jeffey Lewis, Mort Halperin, Walt Slocumbe, George Perkovich, and Linton Brooks. But, I guess they are idiots.
  Or are you referring to government? Cause even then, I don't think Gates, Mullen, or H. Clinton are idiots. Or, are you referring to Congress?
  
  But, then again, everyone like to generalize. That is like me saying, everyone in Columbus is an idiot.

  I'll freely admit there are smart people employed by a bloated, over-extended inefficient federal Big Government created and led by corrupt, self-preserving idiots.
  
  I'll also admit that anyone who works for the Feds is indeed smart in the fact that they earn a decent paycheck and great benefits paid via the tax dollars generated by the producers of real goods & services in a semi-robust American private economy.