Ghmothwdwhso wrote:
Sykotyk wrote:
A query.... is there any job on Earth, that you feel, is worth over $10 million a year?
Think about it. And I'm not talking about sports, etc, where the physical toll on the body decades later is being compensated up front. Is there any occupation you feel you can do that actually produces or accomplishes something that would be worth the equivalent of being paid $1,141 for every hour in a year?
Is there, really?
If I owned a business and made $5 million in a year PROFIT, it's because of my employees actually working to accomplish something. I was simply the steward and the guidance to that end.
In 1965, the average CEO made 24x the amount of his average employee. In other words, if my average employee made $40,000 today, I'd be raking in a cool $906,000 by 1965 standards. As of 2006, the average CEO makes 282x the amount of his average employee. Which means if his average employees make $40,000, the CEO is making a whopping $11.28 million. A $10.24 million INCREASE, adjusted to inflation.
Is there any revolutionary advancement to managerial expertise that actually makes a 10x increase in compensation logical?
Is there anything in your job, in your current position, that you can do that will vaunt you to a 1000% increase in pay? Is there, really?
You're doing exactly what the CEOs and moneychangers in this world want you to do. And that is to defend their greed because you're nothing without them. Yet, you may, just maybe, wind up in that same boat and when that day comes, you want to keep all of your ill-gotten gains.
We're not a manufacturing society. We're not even a service society. We're an ownership society.
People make money off of what they own, not what they produce in a job. And the key with an ownership society is that it's very difficult to lose that position when the tax laws are slanted in your favor and your own employees worship the ground you walk on for being so far above them.
Capitalism only works because of greed.
Note:
http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/webfeatures_snapshots_20060621/
Sykotyk
One occupation that never gets ridiculed for how much money they make is "entertainment" i.e. Actors. Many of them complain publicly about a, private company's CEO, making $5 mil a year when they are hauling in 10-20mil per film.
I definitely agree with that assessment. The problem with that is the distribution system setup because of copyright law. They OWN the rights to the movie, therefore the pure cost of making the movie is inconsequential to the potential income of it because the reshowing at theaters is not the end of the money-making endeavor. They own the rights to that. And even satire (as seen in the recent Youtube Hitler parodies show) is nearly impossible to compete with those rights as they have more money to fight it.
I definitely have issues with how the MPAA and RIAA have strongarmed congress again and again to continue to increase and subsidize their industries through bully pulpit laws, coercion of the original intent of 'copyright', and the DMCA law. No logical mind on Earth can equate copying a $5 DVD from Wal-Mart for a friend equals 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
Does anybody consider that fair punishment? What other theft, even without the intent to sell or profit, would require a fine 50,000 times larger than the cost of the original item. AND 5 years in jail (
see here)
Why, because of greed. They own it. For eternity (or, basically since Mickey Mouse was about to scroll into the public domain and Disney kept arguing, successfully, to extend the length of copyrights) because they refuse the common good in exchange for their own bottom line.
As for greed fueling capitalism. Nobody seemed to really refute that. Even suggesting the only way poor people can get out of being poor is by being greedy. That which they cannot attain more than they need they'll never attain enough of what they need.
Wonderful logic there. I need a loaf of bread. Better to afford to buy 5 loaves just because I can. But, then make sure other people that were in my position can't get them, either. Let them mold, throw them out. Who cares. I'm a greedy capitalist.
There's more to life than greed.
As to
queencitybuckeye,
queencitybuckeye wrote:
Sykotyk wrote:
A query.... is there any job on Earth, that you feel, is worth over $10 million a year?
Certainly.
Think about it. And I'm not talking about sports, etc, where the physical toll on the body decades later is being compensated up front. Is there any occupation you feel you can do that actually produces or accomplishes something that would be worth the equivalent of being paid $1,141 for every hour in a year?
Again, yes.
Please elaborate on those occupations.
If I owned a business and made $5 million in a year PROFIT, it's because of my employees actually working to accomplish something. I was simply the steward and the guidance to that end.
The word "simply" refutes your argument. It makes it obvious to those of us who have done it that you have no earthly idea what it takes.
I actually work for myself and am quite happy doing so. I also don't mind when I have to write checks to the IRS, the state of Ohio, or for local taxes.. Why, because I get so much for that money. From income, sales, property and associated business taxes, i get roads, bridges, schools, police, fire, emergency, the judicial system, welfare safety nets for those that need them, assistance to the elderly who may not have been able to live the good life and are far beyond ever being able to pay their healthcare burden in their twilight, government regulation from keeping just any Joe Blow from doing whatever he whats--the consequences on the rest of society be damned, National parks, Safe and secure water ways, internationally protected by our military, a free and open democratic congress where I have the right to vote,... The list goes on.
We're not a manufacturing society. We're not even a service society. We're an ownership society.
Tell you what, go work for 20 or 30 years to accumulate a little bit of money, and then risk every dime of it and borrow substantially more to create something out of nothing. Then come back and minimize ownership.
So, you've overextended yourself on a gamble that for you happened to pay off. Good for you. Now go look up the business statistics of how many startups in your same position crash and burn in the first year. Less than half make it four years before hemorrhaging into a flatline. (
see here) Not too convincing. You're a statistical anomoly. There's no doubt in my mind those people starting all those failed business gave it the best shot possible and either events beyond their control showed up (i.e., competitors with more weight to throw around) or they were situated in a market ill-equipped to support such an enterprise (i.e., one town having a fifth pizza shop).
Doesn't mean they didn't work hard. Agonize over it. Do their damnedest to succeed.
There's nothing wrong with risking a little. But if you're mortgaging your house to pay for a business you're not business savvy. You're extremely stupid and quite a bit lucky.
People make money off of what they own, not what they produce in a job.
Where do you believe the funding for that ownership comes from. Inherited wealth? Tiny fraction. The overwhelming majority of businesses in this country are created from nothing through a combination of hard work, a little bit of smarts, more hard work, a bit of good fortune, and a little more work. You may of course choose not to believe this, you're simply wrong.
Everyone has some net worth. What we're talking about is excessive. I used money saved and started working for myself. I didn't take gigantic risks to do it. Why would I risk everything I have on a 50-50 bet? I'd rather go to a Vegas blackjack table and get those odds.
Capitalism only works because of greed.
I'd argue that greed is far more about "how" than "how much". It would be difficult, for example, to claim that Bill Gates is greedy when he's given away more than the rest of us combined will earn in a hundred lifetimes.
Hmm,...
greed
n
1. excessive consumption of or desire for food; gluttony
2. excessive desire, as for wealth or power
Excessive is right in there. It doesn't say "consumption of or desire for food; desire, as for wealth or power". Excessive is the key word when it comes to greed. I can desire a home of my own. A car. Take a months vacation a year.... that wouldn't be excessive. The desire for ten homes, 30 cars, and take 10 months off would be, would it not?
Sure, i agree, greed can lead to very unethical means by which to procure what they desire. But, a starving man would eventually turn to crime to feed himself. That'd hardly be considered greed but rather self-preservation. That doesn't make it right, though, for a millionaire to squeeze a few more shillings from their workers a day to attain even more of what they won't ever need.
As a side note, do you own your own business, and if so how many employees do you have, if any? And if so, would you consider yourself a generous boss or a Scrooge? And look at yourself for examples where you may have procured from your employees more just because you could rather than because you needed to.
Thanks for reading this diatribe,
queencitybuckeye.
Later,
Sykotyk
OK! Now we have all agreed that GREED is on both end of the spectrum ...... Let not just beat up on the wealthy let place some responsibility on the other end. I can hear those famous words now.... "They need to put some skin into the game also"
fish82 wrote: