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Proposed: "We the People" tax act

  • NNN
    I could make a daily habit out of posting my ideas in the form of legislation, but I'll probably refrain.

    After another year of slogging through taxes and being forced to adhere to the abomination that is the U.S. tax code, I had this doozy. I'm of the opinion that members of Congress are no more or less important than anyone else in this country, and far too many have completely lost sight of the way in which their "minor legislation" has sweeping effects on every single person in the country. How to help alleviate this issue?

    If passed, members of Congress would be forced to compile their own tax information and actually sit down and do their own taxes without the assistance of anyone else. They can use the IRS help line, but would have to do so from their personal phone and cannot identify themselves as members of Congress. In addition, all tax returns filled out by members of Congress would be audited by the IRS, and it would be done on camera.

    If they are unwilling to consider and pass this, it simply proves that they're collectively of the opinion that they are more important than the rest of the country; they put a yoke on the populace that they are unwilling to lift themselves. It's pretty easy to put the screws to everyone else when you personally are basically exempted from anything resembling accountability. And it'd be nice to see an elected official end up like everyone else...wadding up a piece of paper that they've spent five hours working on, throwing it against the wall, and yelling "Why the FUCK don't these numbers add up????"
  • majorspark
    I hear ya brother. I just went through hell as well. I could not have said it better myself. The federal tax code is an abomination. The founders would be rolling in their graves. The federal tax code makes the intolerable acts look like a stroll through the park. What makes it even more of an abomination is when you have jumped through all their hoops you get the honor of signing over your hard earned cash to a bunch of circus clowns.
  • I Wear Pants
    That'd be entertaining to watch at least.

    I just wish they'd streamline the system more so we can waste less money on administrative costs and use it for cool things like roads, schools, libraries, infrastructure, etc.

    I did find that the e-file system is pretty easy to use. Just fill out the PDFs and hit submit. They even do the math for you.
  • majorspark
    I Wear Pants wrote: That'd be entertaining to watch at least.

    I just wish they'd streamline the system more so we can waste less money on administrative costs and use it for cool things like roads, schools, libraries, infrastructure, etc.

    I did find that the e-file system is pretty easy to use. Just fill out the PDFs and hit submit. They even do the math for you.
    You are still a young man. I did my daughters taxes and it was nothing in caparison to my own personal/business tax returns. As you get older and maybe get involved with the production of a good or service, you will have a better understanding of the yoke that is placed on your neck.
  • LJ
    majorspark wrote:
    I Wear Pants wrote: That'd be entertaining to watch at least.

    I just wish they'd streamline the system more so we can waste less money on administrative costs and use it for cool things like roads, schools, libraries, infrastructure, etc.

    I did find that the e-file system is pretty easy to use. Just fill out the PDFs and hit submit. They even do the math for you.
    You are still a young man. I did my daughters taxes and it was nothing in caparison to my own personal/business tax returns. As you get older and maybe get involved with the production of a good or service, you will have a better understanding of the yoke that is placed on your neck.
    you don't know taxes until you have done oil taxes. I own a tax prep company and have to send MY taxes to another firm because he is the only guy in Columbus who is certified in oil stuff. His class to learn it was 1 month long and over $15,000.
  • I Wear Pants
    /me is actually thinking of picking up an accounting major in addition to his planned marketing major.
  • LJ
    I Wear Pants wrote: * I Wear Pants is actually thinking of picking up an accounting major in addition to his planned marketing major.
    accounting will give you waaaaaaaaaaaaay more job opportunities
  • I Wear Pants
    Well I'm getting the marketing major. I really like the subject, classes, etc. I find it interesting.

    I think I'll also find accounting/finance interesting when I get into it but if I don't I really couldn't care less how many jobs there are. I'm not doing something I don't love.
  • majorspark
    LJ wrote:
    majorspark wrote:
    I Wear Pants wrote: That'd be entertaining to watch at least.

    I just wish they'd streamline the system more so we can waste less money on administrative costs and use it for cool things like roads, schools, libraries, infrastructure, etc.

    I did find that the e-file system is pretty easy to use. Just fill out the PDFs and hit submit. They even do the math for you.
    You are still a young man. I did my daughters taxes and it was nothing in caparison to my own personal/business tax returns. As you get older and maybe get involved with the production of a good or service, you will have a better understanding of the yoke that is placed on your neck.
    you don't know taxes until you have done oil taxes. I own a tax prep company and have to send MY taxes to another firm because he is the only guy in Columbus who is certified in oil stuff. His class to learn it was 1 month long and over $15,000.
    Damn. Oil = demons blood in the arena of politics. No doubt the tax code reflects this. Probably makes my tax hell feel like a stroll on the beach.
  • Shane Falco
    Would love to see this,
    But it will never happen. Would make them look like the incompetent, morons they are!
  • ptown_trojans_1
    It makes no sense, when I am able to just go out and hire an accountant. Why can't members of Congress be able to do the same?
  • FatHobbit
    ptown_trojans_1 wrote: It makes no sense, when I am able to just go out and hire an accountant. Why can't members of Congress be able to do the same?
    I think his point is that the tax code is so complicated you HAVE to hire an accountant. If members of congress had to do their own taxes I imagine somehow the tax code would be quickly simplified.
  • majorspark
    US tax code on-line.

    http://www.fourmilab.ch/uscode/26usc/
    The complete Internal Revenue Code is more than 24 megabytes in length, and contains more than 3.4 million words; printed 60 lines to the page, it would fill more than 7500 letter-size pages
    Does anyone think it is just for the government to subject its law abiding citizens to this? The federal tax code is more about controlling the actions of its citizens than funding the government.
  • Shane Falco
    So P-town are you of "do as I say not as I do" thinking?

    Do you think that Charlie " I didn't know I had to claim my rental income" Rangel would be able to hide that if he had to do them on camera and be subjected to an audit every year? And yeah I'm aware that R's have, or are cheating too.

    Why not hold them to a higher standard? Shouldn't they actually know how to follow the rules they write and vote approval of?

    Would the tax laws change if this happened?... You bet your ass they would! Of course I don't personally see a whole lot of common sense in DC so....
  • ptown_trojans_1
    FatHobbit wrote:
    ptown_trojans_1 wrote: It makes no sense, when I am able to just go out and hire an accountant. Why can't members of Congress be able to do the same?
    I think his point is that the tax code is so complicated you HAVE to hire an accountant. If members of congress had to do their own taxes I imagine somehow the tax code would be quickly simplified.
    Yeah, I'll agree that the tax code needs to be simpler, but I still think Congress should be able to have accountants.
    Shane Falco wrote: So P-town are you of "do as I say not as I do" thinking?

    Do you think that Charlie " I didn't know I had to claim my rental income" Rangel would be able to hide that if he had to do them on camera and be subjected to an audit every year? And yeah I'm aware that R's have, or are cheating too.

    Why not hold them to a higher standard? Shouldn't they actually know how to follow the rules they write and vote approval of?

    Would the tax laws change if this happened?... You bet your ass they would! Of course I don't personally see a whole lot of common sense in DC so....
    Nope, not at all. I hired a tax accountant for my taxes this year. Charlie Rangel is one corrupt person and perhaps instead of having each Congressman fill out their taxes by themselves, we have the IRS or other agencies audit them randomly each year.

    I'm for tax reform and getting dodgy tax evasion eliminated. It is just members of Congress should have the ability to use accountants, but would be subject to tougher auditing.
  • NNN
    ptown_trojans_1 wrote: It makes no sense, when I am able to just go out and hire an accountant. Why can't members of Congress be able to do the same?
    Who makes the adjustments every single year that affect millions of people? And who does it with absolutely no concept of just how much time, effort, and money is wasted nationwide as a result? Anyone who fills out tax returns is aware of this fact, and we're all basically powerless to do anything about it except bitch and squander thousands of hours that could be put to better use doing pretty much anything else.

    My father has managed rental properties (on a self-employed basis) since before I was born. I can remember every single year....he'd start taxes around January 10 and would be lucky to have them done by April 14. During the Clinton Administration, he actually had to give up his weekend games of golf entirely to make sure that it could be done. You know what he wasn't doing while working on taxes? He wasn't fixing plumbing issues, re-painting apartments, having new carpet installed, or doing anything else related to his actual job.
  • ptown_trojans_1
    NNN wrote:
    ptown_trojans_1 wrote: It makes no sense, when I am able to just go out and hire an accountant. Why can't members of Congress be able to do the same?
    Who makes the adjustments every single year that affect millions of people? And who does it with absolutely no concept of just how much time, effort, and money is wasted nationwide as a result? Anyone who fills out tax returns is aware of this fact, and we're all basically powerless to do anything about it except bitch and squander thousands of hours that could be put to better use doing pretty much anything else.

    My father has managed rental properties (on a self-employed basis) since before I was born. I can remember every single year....he'd start taxes around January 10 and would be lucky to have them done by April 14. During the Clinton Administration, he actually had to give up his weekend games of golf entirely to make sure that it could be done. You know what he wasn't doing while working on taxes? He wasn't fixing plumbing issues, re-painting apartments, having new carpet installed, or doing anything else related to his actual job.
    No offense, but why didn't he hire an accountant and save the trouble? It is only a couple hundred bucks.

    Taxes are taxes, they are what they are. I grumble a little, but in the end let an accountant take care of it.

    My g/fs family owns a business and has an accountant for their taxes.
  • QuakerOats
    NNN wrote: I could make a daily habit out of posting my ideas in the form of legislation, but I'll probably refrain.

    After another year of slogging through taxes and being forced to adhere to the abomination that is the U.S. tax code, I had this doozy. I'm of the opinion that members of Congress are no more or less important than anyone else in this country, and far too many have completely lost sight of the way in which their "minor legislation" has sweeping effects on every single person in the country. How to help alleviate this issue?

    If passed, members of Congress would be forced to compile their own tax information and actually sit down and do their own taxes without the assistance of anyone else. They can use the IRS help line, but would have to do so from their personal phone and cannot identify themselves as members of Congress. In addition, all tax returns filled out by members of Congress would be audited by the IRS, and it would be done on camera.

    If they are unwilling to consider and pass this, it simply proves that they're collectively of the opinion that they are more important than the rest of the country; they put a yoke on the populace that they are unwilling to lift themselves. It's pretty easy to put the screws to everyone else when you personally are basically exempted from anything resembling accountability. And it'd be nice to see an elected official end up like everyone else...wadding up a piece of paper that they've spent five hours working on, throwing it against the wall, and yelling "Why the FUCK don't these numbers add up????"
    Amen brother.

    "Economists call these "tax compliance" costs, and the IRS estimates Americans spend 6.6 billion hours per year filling out tax forms—including 1.6 billion hours on the 1040 form alone"...

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/topic/96.html

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/25987.html

    It is time CLEAN HOUSE.
  • NNN
    ptown_trojans_1 wrote: No offense, but why didn't he hire an accountant and save the trouble? It is only a couple hundred bucks.

    Taxes are taxes, they are what they are. I grumble a little, but in the end let an accountant take care of it.

    My g/fs family owns a business and has an accountant for their taxes.
    He tried that a few times, usually when there would be a new form or something that had been heavily amended from the previous year. The one time he actually managed to get through to someone who fully understood the new changes (the usual response was "I'm still trying to figure that out myself"), the quote was several thousand dollars to get it done. The explanation was "If I take this on, I won't be able to handle accounting for anyone else for at least the next six weeks, if not longer".
  • dwccrew
    LJ wrote:
    I Wear Pants wrote: * I Wear Pants is actually thinking of picking up an accounting major in addition to his planned marketing major.
    accounting will give you waaaaaaaaaaaaay more job opportunities
    This.
  • BoatShoes
    majorspark wrote: US tax code on-line.

    http://www.fourmilab.ch/uscode/26usc/
    The complete Internal Revenue Code is more than 24 megabytes in length, and contains more than 3.4 million words; printed 60 lines to the page, it would fill more than 7500 letter-size pages
    Does anyone think it is just for the government to subject its law abiding citizens to this? The federal tax code is more about controlling the actions of its citizens than funding the government.
    Very little of the tax code applies to most Americans and it is large because things such as the taxation of outbound and inbound international transactions along with different subchapters for different business entities (subchapter C, S and K, etc.) Wealth-transfer tax; and, on and on.

    When broken down into it's component parts it's really not so outrageous.
  • BoatShoes
    NNN wrote:
    ptown_trojans_1 wrote: It makes no sense, when I am able to just go out and hire an accountant. Why can't members of Congress be able to do the same?
    Who makes the adjustments every single year that affect millions of people? And who does it with absolutely no concept of just how much time, effort, and money is wasted nationwide as a result? Anyone who fills out tax returns is aware of this fact, and we're all basically powerless to do anything about it except bitch and squander thousands of hours that could be put to better use doing pretty much anything else.

    My father has managed rental properties (on a self-employed basis) since before I was born. I can remember every single year....he'd start taxes around January 10 and would be lucky to have them done by April 14. During the Clinton Administration, he actually had to give up his weekend games of golf entirely to make sure that it could be done. You know what he wasn't doing while working on taxes? He wasn't fixing plumbing issues, re-painting apartments, having new carpet installed, or doing anything else related to his actual job.
    Well in reality, the Tax Code is probably more bloated with tax expenditures and consumption-tax treatment (that can allow persons to profit off of the treasury) because Congress persons listen more to their constituents and lobbying as opposed to tax professors and experts who really know what they're talking about. For instance, a particular tax professor at Cleveland Marshall is about as much of an expert on the home mortgage interest deduction as anyone and testified before Congress numerous times on how you might maim the sacred cow in order to prevent tax consequences from contributing to real estate bubbles...(i.e. such as the mortgage interest deduction inflates housing prices in order to preserve a larger deduction on tax returns, etc.) and no one listened because people like middle class americans and tea partiers would complain about their great deductions being taken away even though they're inherently inconsistent with income tax norms.
  • majorspark
    Boat good to hear from you. Many times we disagree but it is always good to see intelligent debate from those that may oppose my views on governance. Believe it or not some that post on this site have made me think twice and reevaluate my views on certain issues. Not to say it alters them in a major way, but it has provided me with a greater understanding and respect of the views of those that differ from my own.
    BoatShoes wrote: Very little of the tax code applies to most Americans
    This is true. Neither does most of the tax burden fall on most Americans. I am an engineer by trade. I spent countless hours in college to gain the knowledge to gain the opportunity to exchange my skills for a steady monetary benefit from an established business. My taxes were not that burdensome at this point.

    As I provided them with my service something inside of me drove me to wanting to produce a good or service on my own. My motivations were first to provide lifelong financial security for my family, second to provide a product my customers could enjoy, third to provide a livelihood to my fellow man who labor with me, and lastly if my endeavor allowed me to provide for the aforementioned, I would want to have the ability to help those in need. Because I chose this route the federal tax code soon became a yoke around my neck.
    BoatShoes wrote: it is large because things such as the taxation of outbound and inbound international transactions along with different subchapters for different business entities (subchapter C, S and K, etc.) Wealth-transfer tax; and, on and on.
    I agree that some of the volume in the code is because of this.

    Answer me this. What is the primary purpose of the federal tax code? Is it to simply generate revenue to fund constitutional functions of the federal government or to coherence its contributors to conform to the will of the federal government?
  • BoatShoes
    majorspark wrote: Answer me this. What is the primary purpose of the federal tax code? Is it to simply generate revenue to fund constitutional functions of the federal government or to coherence its contributors to conform to the will of the federal government?
    I think we would both a agree that the "supposed" purpose of the IRC is to raise revenue for the federal government of the united states...where I imagine we differ in opinion is what the purpose is in practice...

    I'm not convinced that the internal revenue code, in its current form was designed neither willfully, recklessly nor negligently for the purpose of forcing United States Citizens and/or resident aliens to conform to some "will" of any of the three branches of the federal government.

    In my opinion, the code is primarily there to make sure accessions to wealth are taxed as income is earned in order to fund various functions of government, few of which found to be unconstitutional under applicable jurisprudence.

    It seems to me the code has also been used, recently moreso, as a social engineering tool to encourage savings and investment in both the business and personal sphere by moving away from tax neutrality in a lot of was to more "fairness norms."

    bottom line is, I don't buy that Congress members are smoking cigars in their offices laughing about how they're conforming the people to their will with the binding words of the IRC.

    I mean seriously...my Representative, Marcia Fudge, for as lame as she is...there is no way any input she would put in on a tax reform bill or bill that changes that tax code is being put in with the purpose of controlling me to her philosophical ideal...I'm not sure she even has the brains to have such a concept formulate within her consciousness.