Wikileaks Releases Film of 2 Reuters Reporters Killed

• bman618

  Fact is both of these wars are illegal as a proper declaration of war was not passed as prescribed by the Constitution. The war in Iraq is both illegal and immoral because we were the aggressor which goes against the Christian theory of a just war. I find it kind of interesting that many people on here are Christians but have no problem in fighting an aggressive war against a country that did not attack us. nor was a threat to us Since we've invaded, we've destabilized that entire region and swung more power to Iran, which was not very smart. Now we have to hear the saber rattlers again about going to war with Iran. These people will bring our economic downfall if we don't get smarter quick.
  
  I have no problem going into Afghanistan, with a proper declaration by Congress, and going after the scum that killed 3,000 of our countrymen on 9/11. I'm extremely disappointed we let the scum off the hook to invade Iraq in a pointless war that has cost us thousands of our finest countrymen, killed hundreds of thousands to a million Iraqi citizens and drained our treasury and is ensuing that our brave troops return home to a country that is not in a good economic situation.
• bman618

  We play by the rules because we are on the moral highground, which is important to a society holding fighting a war as it often keeps morale up. When we start using the tactics of the scum we are fighting by torturing - we prosecuted Japanese after World War II for waterboarding our soldiers and sailors - we lose the moral highground, some of the trust of our allies and are putting what we are fighting for, the belief in liberty and the rule of law in danger. This is what the terrorist scum wants. They also want to drain our treasury and cause our economic collapse much like what happened to the USSR so we will have to disengage from their region and come home. It's funny that the folks who are the biggest supporters of these wars are falling into the trap of the terrorists.
• Footwedge

  sjmvsfscs08 wrote: Well I think you completely ignore the mindset of a soldier fighting in a war. You're being ridiculously naive.

  I know the mindset of soldiers and understand the pressures they are under. I fit the description of several adjectives you people like to throw out, but "naive" is hardly one of them.
  

  You know what's more fucking overused and incredibly flawed than my "emboldening the enemy" argument? The "we were the original signatories to the Geneva Conventions" is completely fucking lame and useless in this war. Not to mention, you're wrong; the first Geneva Treaty was signed in 1864, we didn't ratify it until the 1880s.

  Well sir, you are dead nuts wrong on that. Referencing the Geneva Conventions generically like I did directly refers to the Conventions of 1949 by all accounts Look it up. We're not talking "treaties" or any other bullshit. We are talking about a group of countries that realized that even under the horrors of war, certain rules needed to be abided by.
  
  The US came to the forefront on this endeavor, because the US had always been the bastion of good intentions around the globe. We agreed to set of rules as did a multitude of other countries.
  

  The most civilized countries on the planet signed the first Geneva Treaty, because it was a gentlemen's war so to speak and they basically treated it as game. Back then war was little more than bringing players to a field and lining up and shooting each other./

  
  
  Incredible stuff. I'm sure Napolean and Ivan the Terrible viewed war as some sort of game. You are equating wars to a cockfight, whereby people come in and place their bets. Why don't you cite references to your claim that wars were "just a game" to these people. Incredible debating point, I must say.
  

  So they made rules for the game. Places where wounded were being helped were out of bounds, the Red Cross symbol, and anyone wearing it, was essentially a referee and couldn't be shot as he was just taking care of the wounded, and don't shoot the civilians as they're just there to watch. That was basically it. Don't kill anyone that doesn't need to die because the war is over trivial objectives anyway.

  LOL. "Trivial objectives". What books have you read? Incredible...and would be laughable if the subject matter were not so serious.
  

  It worked well in European wars, in World War I/Word War II when the Germans knew they were defeated in a particular battle they laid down their arms and surrendered at the first opportunity. To them the game was up, and hopefully they could get back to their fields by spring. That was their mindset. It worked against Iraq too as many of them were just in it for a paycheck.

  And now you claim that WWI and WWII were also games set up by a bunch of European leaders that found pleasure in millions of people killing each other.
  
  I would suggest to you that you might try reading some real history books on the whys and wheretofors which led to the wars of the 20th century.
  
  I've known some people debate some of the salient points on these wars, but to claim that WWI and WWII were some sort of "game" to be enjoyed by the generals et al is really quite remarkable. Tell me more.
  

  Today, things don't work that way. Once again, the jihadist's goal is very similar to the Japanese in World War II: they will kill as many of us as possible, and surrender is not an option. They do not "play by the rules," so why should we so limit ourselves?

  
  
  I could write a 10 page rebuttal to this point. Summarizing a responce to this doesn't do justice at all. So let me just say a couple of things. First of all, there were no jihadists in Iraq before we entered there. Not one. But much more importantly, because jihadists terrorize outside of the rule of laws in warfare, we have every right to become teerorists ourselves?
  
  You absolutely cannot be serious.
  

  IEDs, guerrilla warfare, suicide bombing, etc have completely shattered the level playing field they hoped to create with the conventions.

  Suicide bombings and the like occurred quite frequently prior to 1949. It is not something that magically appeared post WWII. Terrorism is as old as the hills. Check out the history of the Irish Catholics blowing themselves up..or check out the Jewish terrorists in the 1929's and 1930's, such as Menachin Begin....future Prime Minkster of Israel.
  
  And none of this crap that you are spewing has an ounce of relevance to what this thread is about either. This video shows point blank the unconditional and brutal assassination of Iraqi citizens...not soldiers, but citizens. It was as if the motherfuckers were playing a video game...cold calloused killers that laughed and joked about the slaughter of unarmed citizens. Even cracking a couple one liners regarding a couple of kids that had lead piercing their 6 year old bodies.
  
  It's the mass killings such as these, the overall loss of respect for life, that has seen between 23 and 40 percent of our returning troops in seeking solutions to their own mental illnesses.
  
  Soldier or no soldier...it is not within the human conscience at large, to kill other human beings that are walking the streets unarmed.
  

  I'm not in any way shape or form advocating shooting civilians for shits and giggles, and I'm not the biggest fan of torture. I'm simply saying you are not being cognizant of the fact that these jihadists are just as willing to kill themselves and American soldiers whether they are wounded or not. To them the game is not up until they're dead. And I am PERFECTLY FINE in forcing them to meet Allah as soon as possible.

  We invaded their country Slick. We invaded their country despite the overwhelming evidence that Iraq was devoid of jihadists. Somehow you cannot get this clear point through your head. The war with Iraq had nothing to do with Islamic extremists. Zero. We invaded their country based on twisted, distorted and manipulated intelligence. That fact that there are Iraqis that want to defend their homeland is perfectlly normal.
  

  You wouldn't survive a week on a battlefield. You need to read some Machiavelli not attempt to guilt people with the "oh you won the demographic lottery." Because it's false, I simply decided not to be a jihadists, and that's why I'm not the one being blown to bits over in the sandbox.

  Don't tell me what I would or would not do in a battlefield. Because you don't know. If realities were reversed, and some asshole country invaded my sovereign land, my guess would be that I would be one of the toughest bastards out there in defending my home land. But you did in fact win the demographic lottery. Had you been born in Iraq, you would have seen your country obliterated by an invading army that possessed 1000 times the military power and force that your own fellow countrymen had and could ever stand up to. You would have witnessed your own children brutally murdered by the invadors of your country. But in your twisted, bizzaro world, all Iraqi citizens are somehow guilty by association, and deserve to fuggin die....and if they die through brutal assassinations from the air, as this video clearly demonstrates, than too bad.
• Glory Days

  

  bman618 wrote: Fact is both of these wars are illegal as a proper declaration of war was not passed as prescribed by the Constitution. The war in Iraq is both illegal and immoral because we were the aggressor which goes against the Christian theory of a just war. I find it kind of interesting that many people on here are Christians but have no problem in fighting an aggressive war against a country that did not attack us. nor was a threat to us Since we've invaded, we've destabilized that entire region and swung more power to Iran, which was not very smart. Now we have to hear the saber rattlers again about going to war with Iran. These people will bring our economic downfall if we don't get smarter quick.
  
  I have no problem going into Afghanistan, with a proper declaration by Congress, and going after the scum that killed 3,000 of our countrymen on 9/11. I'm extremely disappointed we let the scum off the hook to invade Iraq in a pointless war that has cost us thousands of our finest countrymen, killed hundreds of thousands to a million Iraqi citizens and drained our treasury and is ensuing that our brave troops return home to a country that is not in a good economic situation.

  there is no other way to fight war if you want to win it.
  

  Incredible stuff. I'm sure Napolean and Ivan the Terrible viewed war as some sort of game. You are equating wars to a cockfight, whereby people come in and place their bets. Why don't you cite references to your claim that wars were "just a game" to these people. Incredible debating point, I must say.

  you never read a book on the civil war did you? civilians use to line up and watch the battles like it was the thing to do on the weekend.
  

  And none of this crap that you are spewing has an ounce of relevance to what this thread is about either. This video shows point blank the unconditional and brutal assassination of Iraqi citizens...not soldiers, but citizens.

  i think you meant to say this:
  "And none of this crap that you are spewing has an ounce of relevance to what this thread is about either. This video shows enemy combatants being killed while preparing for an attack on nearby US troops."
  
  because, well that is what happend.
• I Wear Pants

  Glory Days, I think he means aggressive war as in, we started it. We were the aggressor. We attacked them, not the other way around.
• bman618

  Glory, I'm referring to fighting a war as the aggressor where the country we are fighting did not attack us. This is against the Christian just war theory. I'm not referring to how the war is waged but it we are the aggressor or if we are defending ourselves after being attacked.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  How many people died during 9/11? Roughly 3,000? With one American life, even if I don't know them and they're a crack head, means as much to me as 10,000 lives of these fuckers. You do the math, I have no remorse for anyone in this video aside from our soldiers for having to put up with people like Footwedge who don't support them.
• I Wear Pants

  SQ_Crazies wrote: How many people died during 9/11? Roughly 3,000? With one American life, even if I don't know them and they're a crack head, means as much to me as 10,000 lives of these fuckers. You do the math, I have no remorse for anyone in this video aside from our soldiers for having to put up with people like Footwedge who don't support them.

  Except that the Iraqis had nothing to do with 9/11. At all.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  Well, that's an argument for a different thread. But I have strong feelings on that.
  
  And this will drive some of you crazy--I knew we'd go to Iraq before we ever shipped off to get the Taliban. I think it's a GENIUS move too. You guys will see the light some day...but until then you're too worried about cleaning out your pussies and making sure our troops (that you want to bring home) have to fight a politically correct war, which is the stupidest term I've ever heard, which is only putting them in more danger.
• I Wear Pants

  SQ_Crazies wrote: Well, that's an argument for a different thread. But I have strong feelings on that.

  Except that it isn't an argument. It's mere facts. Iraq was not involved in 9/11.
  
  It's also a bit disturbing that you think one of our crackhead citizens would be worth 10,000 of a different country's.
  
  Pro tip: We're all people.
• I Wear Pants

  SQ_Crazies wrote: Well, that's an argument for a different thread. But I have strong feelings on that.
  
  And this will drive some of you crazy--I knew we'd go to Iraq before we ever shipped off to get the Taliban. I think it's a GENIUS move too. You guys will see the light some day...but until then you're too worried about cleaning out your pussies and making sure our troops (that you want to bring home) have to fight a politically correct war, which is the stupidest term I've ever heard, which is only putting them in more danger.

  I don't want them fighting wars at all unless we're directly attacked. Which is why I supported going into Afghanistan.
  
  You'll also have to explain how it's "Genius" that we went into Iraq.
• I Wear Pants

  And calling anyone who doesn't support the war a pussy is the same thing as calling anyone who does a blood thirsty warmonger. It doesn't accomplish anything. It's a way to avoid actual discussion and debate so lets try to avoid that.
• Glory Days

  

  SQ_Crazies wrote: Well, that's an argument for a different thread. But I have strong feelings on that.
  
  And this will drive some of you crazy--I knew we'd go to Iraq before we ever shipped off to get the Taliban. I think it's a GENIUS move too. You guys will see the light some day...but until then you're too worried about cleaning out your pussies and making sure our troops (that you want to bring home) have to fight a politically correct war, which is the stupidest term I've ever heard, which is only putting them in more danger.

  hey we agree on something!
  

  I Wear Pants wrote:

  SQ_Crazies wrote: Well, that's an argument for a different thread. But I have strong feelings on that.

  Except that it isn't an argument. It's mere facts. Iraq was not involved in 9/11.

  yeah, even GWB new that.
  

  I Wear Pants wrote: I don't want them fighting wars at all unless we're directly attacked. Which is why I supported going into Afghanistan.
  
  You'll also have to explain how it's "Genius" that we went into Iraq.

  go find a globe, take a look at the country that sits between afghanistan and iraq.
• I Wear Pants

  So now you're suggesting we invade Iran?
• Glory Days

  

  I Wear Pants wrote: So now you're suggesting we invade Iran?

  nope, just keeping them in check for now. but the option is there if they get out of hand.
• I Wear Pants

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war_casualties
  
  That's what "keeping them in check" has accomplished. Congratulations.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  I Wear Pants wrote: Pro tip: We're all people.

  False.
  
  We're Americans. They're people.
• I Wear Pants

  SQ_Crazies wrote:

  I Wear Pants wrote: Pro tip: We're all people.

  False.
  
  We're Americans. They're people.

  Pro tip: Americans are just people.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  False again.
  
  Move to Canada if you want to be just a person. I feel the same way about you and I don't even know you--AND you went to my high schools arch rival lol. I value your life as much as I value 100 Iraqi lives.
• queencitybuckeye

  I Wear Pants wrote: Pro tip: Americans are just people.

  You won't tend to have much luck convincing a Xenophobe that xenophobia != patriotism.
• I Wear Pants

  SQ_Crazies wrote: False again.
  
  Move to Canada if you want to be just a person. I feel the same way about you and I don't even know you--AND you went to my high schools arch rival lol. I value your life as much as I value 100 Iraqi lives.

  I was unaware that you were a xenophobe.
• SQ_Crazies

  

  LOL, I'm far from a xenophobe. Not really interested in getting into a debate to stand by my statement at the moment though.
  
  But I'm not sorry that I have a problem with someone who thinks the people defending their liberty are criminals. I've KO'd people for less.
• queencitybuckeye

  Does mommy know you're on the computer again, tough guy?
• LJ

  

  Hmmm.... let's get this thread back on track shall we?
• SQ_Crazies

  

  I'm all for the advancement of our species. And I'm not talking about here on this planet, I'm talking about getting off of it--that's how the human race will survive. And clearly I'm not talking about this happening during my lifetime. America makes up 4% of the world's population. And as 4% we fucking dominate. A pee-on in his country is more valuable than some towel head who still lives like it's the 17th century. Guess what, I don't feel bad for them. There were people here who were as poor as anyone out there right now--they busted their ass and rose to the top in spite of it all. Those people are doing nothing but dragging down the advancement of our species, so I have no bad feelings about that video. No one pushes the envelope more than we do. There are so many things that people have been brainwashed to believe that really aren't THAT important. In the end it's still dog eat dog, only the strong survive. Survival doesn't cry over the weak, it puts them in the ground.