How do you feel about this video?

• Fab1b

  

  
  
  Another official forwarded me this video. The official calls the headlock illegal (though doesn't signal that just awards a point after the nearfall) but from the angle I couldn't tell if the top or bottom man caused it to become illegal, thats not the point. After the illegal hold penalty is issued you can clearly see the kid does not appear to be hurt and is getting set in the down position. The coach comes out on the mat and I am assuming requests the recovery time since it was deemed illegal. IMO the coach had his kid take a dive in this match!! Unethical!! Now as an official our hands are tied we cannot tell the wrestler he must continue, if they say they are injured that is it, I just think this was a low blow by this coach!! Thoughts from the wrestling community?
• Tiny285Joey

  

  Fab1b wrote:
  
  Another official forwarded me this video. The official calls the headlock illegal (though doesn't signal that just awards a point after the nearfall) but from the angle I couldn't tell if the top or bottom man caused it to become illegal, thats not the point. After the illegal hold penalty is issued you can clearly see the kid does not appear to be hurt and is getting set in the down position. The coach comes out on the mat and I am assuming requests the recovery time since it was deemed illegal. IMO the coach had his kid take a dive in this match!! Unethical!! Now as an official our hands are tied we cannot tell the wrestler he must continue, if they say they are injured that is it, I just think this was a low blow by this coach!! Thoughts from the wrestling community?

  
  
  I am with you Fab, this was a dive and Rock Hill is apparently SC's elite team and they resort to winning a dual like this? Absolutely bush league.
• Bitterrunner-up

  It looks like your assessment is correct. But you're also correct that the official can't do anything about it. There's nothing you can do about a coach or a kid that has doesn't care about the integrity of the sport (or their own integrity for that matter).
  
  It's not like this is the first time this has happened. I remember back in '06 171-pounder Tony Santos (Hamilton) took third place on the strength of his acting skills. It works so well that he continued the performance at Senior Nationals, winning two matches by DQ and finishing as an "All American".
• 1_beast

  

  i Didnt see the move go iilegal either....but the coach definately made his kid take the fall....thats just a blackeye for the sport
• GoldenBear

  Disgusting by the Coach...teaching opposite "values" from those our sport is supposed to teach young men. Who would want kids to fight through adversity, overcome a deficit, be physically and mentally tough, or follow the spirit of the rules even when there is a technicality you could pseudo-cheat with? It makes the kid look real bad, even though it's predominately the coach's fault.
  
  I think that considering the safety concerns and litigious society we live in, you cannot put the decision of real -vs- fake injury on the ref---you have to rely on coaches not being such............
  
  Barring malice or high-level stupidity by the opponent, in the event my kid cannot continue, I make my kids get back up and start/stop the match.
  
  It's a dark shame that some coaches of our young men don't know how to win like a man or lose like one.
• Bam175

  Fab1b wrote:
  
  Another official forwarded me this video. The official calls the headlock illegal (though doesn't signal that just awards a point after the nearfall) but from the angle I couldn't tell if the top or bottom man caused it to become illegal, thats not the point. After the illegal hold penalty is issued you can clearly see the kid does not appear to be hurt and is getting set in the down position. The coach comes out on the mat and I am assuming requests the recovery time since it was deemed illegal. IMO the coach had his kid take a dive in this match!! Unethical!! Now as an official our hands are tied we cannot tell the wrestler he must continue, if they say they are injured that is it, I just think this was a low blow by this coach!! Thoughts from the wrestling community?

  Was that a middle school match ???.....Just kidding......I didnt see anything illegal about the headlock....he had an arm from were I could tell ( im not a ref and havent wreslted in about 18 yrs tho )....but that was definately ashame what the coach did.....there was nothing wrong with that kid.....kids that wrestle for a coach like that will never learn what wrestling is all about......
• Bam175

  GoldenBear wrote: Disgusting by the Coach...teaching opposite "values" from those our sport is supposed to teach young men. Who would want kids to fight through adversity, overcome a deficit, be physically and mentally tough, or follow the spirit of the rules even when there is a technicality you could pseudo-cheat with? It makes the kid look real bad, even though it's predominately the coach's fault.
  
  I think that considering the safety concerns and litigious society we live in, you cannot put the decision of real -vs- fake injury on the ref---you have to rely on coaches not being such............
  
  Barring malice or high-level stupidity by the opponent, in the event my kid cannot continue, I make my kids get back up and start/stop the match.
  
  It's a dark shame that some coaches of our young men don't know how to win like a man or lose like one.

  Well said !!
• Fab1b

  

  I don't know any people involved here, I ref in Florida. I was just sent this by an official who knows this official asking for feedback. My first thought was that I didn't see anything illegal either but again not the point, my thought was if anything the defensive wrestler at some point maybe pulled his own arm out causing the headlock to become illegal so therefore it would be potentially dangerous. If that was the call I don't think we would have seen any injury time taken!!
• WGBplayer

  There is no way to tell what happened. The ref made an illegal call. End of story. You have to trust him from our view. You can tell too he felt bad about the outcome. He went to the book and everything. He made the legal call.
• cruiser_96

  

  Great move by the coach. Winning is everything so we do so by any means possible! Here is hoping for a state title via full-nelsons!!!
  
  How does this coach sleep at night? How do you look your team and/or parents in the eye and tell them you want the wrestlers to learn from this sport. Pathetic.
• Fab1b

  

  WGBplayer wrote: There is no way to tell what happened. The ref made an illegal call. End of story. You have to trust him from our view. You can tell too he felt bad about the outcome. He went to the book and everything. He made the legal call.

  ^agree I am not putting anything on this official what so ever. I was just bringing up a scenario had the call been the potentially dangerous call.
• ksig489

  What a chicken**** move by the coach. The man is a coward.
• cruiser_96

  

  Gee, ksig. Tell us how you really feel!
• WebFire

  I have no idea what I just watched. LOL
• WGBplayer

  Fab1b wrote:

  WGBplayer wrote: There is no way to tell what happened. The ref made an illegal call. End of story. You have to trust him from our view. You can tell too he felt bad about the outcome. He went to the book and everything. He made the legal call.

  ^agree I am not putting anything on this official what so ever. I was just bringing up a scenario had the call been the potentially dangerous call.

  Well then the other kid wins. Plain and simple. The kicker would be now the coach would go crazy because this potentially dangerous caused "harm" to his kid.
• Fab1b

  

  ^ I know the rules. I was bringing up that scenario to even wonder would the kid have taken any injury time, but we will never know. I just hate seeing this crap. Like I said earlier, as officials our hands are tied on these issues and there is nothing that can be done on the officials part. People need to see videos like this and get the word out things like this have no place in our sport!!
• Bam175

  Fab1b wrote: ^ I know the rules. I was bringing up that scenario to even wonder would the kid have taken any injury time, but we will never know. I just hate seeing this crap. Like I said earlier, as officials our hands are tied on these issues and there is nothing that can be done on the officials part. People need to see videos like this and get the word out things like this have no place in our sport!!

  I agree....the ref did his job......it was POTENTIONALLY dangerous....maybe...lol......but in any case he stopped it BEFORE there was any injury.....the kid got up and went to the center of the mat and I believe he was talking to the ref....... In reality the kid should have been hit for stalling and a team point taken away for the coaches actions.....but that probably wouldnt happen...lol......n
• proudguard04

  I was reading the you-tube comments and someone on there said the kid passed out. I dont know about anyone else but ive nevver seen some who is passed out, but still able to bridge.
• ksig489

  I have a hard time watching a team that is supposed to be that good but they have a kid getting caught in multiple head and arms. SC wrestling must be pretty low level if that team is one of the best.
• dbluvsd1amonds

  

  ksig489 wrote: I have a hard time watching a team that is supposed to be that good but they have a kid getting caught in multiple head and arms. SC wrestling must be pretty low level if that team is one of the best.

  I agree with you. My kid's coaches would come apart at the seams if he tried to throw headlocks. (BTW he's not even 10 so he's nowhere near high school.)
  I never saw the illegal move either, but it appears that after the ref stopped it that the kid is listening to his coaches corner to some instructions. I'd love to hear what was being said.
• I Wear Pants

  Headlock festival.
  
  That was horrible.
• tcby99

  couple of points.
  
  1.) Did either kid do anything other than a head & arm?
  2.) Are coaches in SC allowed to run out onto the mat? what is this big time wrestling
  3.) I think the official handled the whole entire match poorly, and the call should have been potentially dangerous not an illegal hold since the defensive wrestlers actions made a legal hold into an illegal one. Wrong call and it affected the entire dual meet.
  4.) I was glad to see that many people at dual meet
  5.) The coach who obviously told his wrestle to take a dive is a coward as should be disciplined by the school or the state. And what kind of position did he put the kid in who took the dive...He now has a negative image in the wrestling community. The coach is not teaching his wrestlers anything...other than to win at all cost....Poor example of sportsmanship.
• salto

  

  Seemed to maintain a legal head and arm throughout. The only way I see this being illegal is if he covered the opponents mouth somehow. In which case the ref would have made the proper call, and left it to a coach that obviously lacks integrity.
• toboot

  if this kid wasn't truly hurt, what a horrible life lesson taught by this coach.
  i experienced this thirty years or so ago (wow, i'm getting old), from the flip-side.
  i was a soph or junior in high school, wrestling a pretty good kid from north canton hoover. i didn't wrestle particularly well and, long story short, was getting drubbed about 11 to 4 or something like that when, with about thirty seconds or so to go, the kid returned me to the mat with a bit too much force, although clearly without ill intent. a slam was called, probably rightfully so, and i took the entirety of my injury or recovery time, whatever it was called back then.
  my coaches then asked if i was ready to finish. i said i didn't think i could go, although i'm not sure how convincing i was, particularly to our head coach who also happened to be my father.
  so my father says fine, tells the ref and opposing coach (walt tolarchyck) that i can't go, and then, just as i think i'm going to get my hand raised, instructs the ref to start the match for one second and to then stop it, thereby avoiding the disqualification, and giving the other kid the win.
  later i asked him why he'd done that, and he basically said that the kid had cleaned my clock, and that he wasn't going to let me win a match that i didn't deserve to win.
  
  i've got three boys under five, and i can say this without qualification.
  assuming they wrestle, i sure hope they're fortunate enough to wrestle for someone like my father (and our asst coaches, who were of the same mold), as opposed to to any coach who would encourage or even permit a kid to take a dive.
• tcby99

  toboot wrote: if this kid wasn't truly hurt, what a horrible life lesson taught by this coach.
  i experienced this thirty years or so ago (wow, i'm getting old), from the flip-side.
  i was a soph or junior in high school, wrestling a pretty good kid from north canton hoover. i didn't wrestle particularly well and, long story short, was getting drubbed about 11 to 4 or something like that when, with about thirty seconds or so to go, the kid returned me to the mat with a bit too much force, although clearly without ill intent. a slam was called, probably rightfully so, and i took the entirety of my injury or recovery time, whatever it was called back then.
  my coaches then asked if i was ready to finish. i said i didn't think i could go, although i'm not sure how convincing i was, particularly to our head coach who also happened to be my father.
  so my father says fine, tells the ref and opposing coach (walt tolarchyck) that i can't go, and then, just as i think i'm going to get my hand raised, instructs the ref to start the match for one second and to then stop it, thereby avoiding the disqualification, and giving the other kid the win.
  later i asked him why he'd done that, and he basically said that the kid had cleaned my clock, and that he wasn't going to let me win a match that i didn't deserve to win.
  
  i've got three boys under five, and i can say this without qualification.
  assuming they wrestle, i sure hope they're fortunate enough to wrestle for someone like my father (and our asst coaches, who were of the same mold), as opposed to to any coach who would encourage or even permit a kid to take a dive.

  +1