Central District Coaches Poll #8 - 2/3/10

• USMCdevil05

  

  It's pretty good! MMM my mouth is watering now!
• cruiser_96

  

  I should have added two more things... My post should have read: "Perhaps it happened because Canal is too busy drinking beer while listening to Van Halen, all the while copying and pasting the results from the 1995, 112 pound weigh class, while getting 3rd place."
  
  Granted, all that beats being a 4x sectional qualifier, but...
• jaba134

  cruiser_96 wrote: I should have added two more things... My post should have read: "Perhaps it happened because Canal is too busy drinking beer while listening to Van Halen, all the while copying and pasting the results from the 1995, 112 pound weigh class, while getting 3rd place."
  
  Granted, all that beats being a 4x sectional qualifier, but...

  That pretty much sums up Canal Winchester right there.
• cruiser_96

  

  Write a new page. jaba! See you at the Schott!
  
  Deal: You make it, I'll by your pops a bowl of Dip'N'Dots!
• jaba134

  He doesnt need them, but if you'll kindly pass those Dip'N'Dots my way then I'll be a happy camper.
• wrestledog

  I understand that ranking might not really mean anything but if that is the case than why do we do them? If they do matter than why not make sure that our information is accurate and coming from an intelligent process. I understand that can find out who the top teams are by the sectionals and district tournament but is that how teams are ranked through the season? Do we look at tournament strength or dual match strength of a team? I know teams that have beat teams head to head and out placed them at tournaments but the Coaches picks have them lower. That does not make sense. Do we rank them by how they will place in the state tournament. In Central OH, then the top team may be Marysville and W. North. Not to many other team have a projected chance at having a State Champion.
  
  Example: 39 coaches rank team in D1 central OH. Clearly some coaches show their limited knowledge of team strength and how rankings should be done for the sectional meeting. If we are going to mimic the dispatch coaches poll from what the central coach's vote we should make coach's more accountable. Or run a validity check on their picks.
  
  Situation: When 99% of the coaches give a team an average score of 33 pts but you have the other 1% that give them an average of 17 then there is clearly an issue. Do the coaches that gave the 17 average score have an issue with the team or do they think the team is not that good? Is it because the coach just filled in numbers instead of truly creating an accurate account of how a team should be ranked. If coaches fail to submit their record and info than that may cause and issue but that only happened for about 3 teams. Some of these same coaches ranked teams in the top 20 that 99% of the other coaches ranked had the team ranked as the 34th or 35th best team in Central Ohio. Obviously, some coaches rankings should not have their votes count if they continue randomly pick their teams.
  
  If you think this is a valid point, please reply with possible solutions. If don't agree....then let's hope that it doesn't happen to you next year.
• Dad4Sports

  Are coaches allowed to vote for their own school? If so, maybe one change to consider is to eliminate that option. You can't vote for yourself.....now go rank the remaining 38....
  
  Also...are each coach's rankings made public? Maybe by releasing this information, the coaches would be a little less likely to vote some of the "crazy" ways that you mentioned and would be more accountable.....sort of like the college football coaches poll that releases how each coach voted in its final poll of the season...
  
  Don't have any real solutions.....just throwing out some ideas.....however, this type of thing happens in most of the high school sports....boys and girls alike.
• wrestledog

  Thanks for the reply. To answer your questions:
  NO coaches do not vote for themselves.
  Yes, the coaches pick are made public to all coaches.
  
  Both of your suggestions are great ideas and that's why they are already in place....but it still happens anyways
• cruiser_96

  

  You do not vote for yourself and the voting is made public.
  
  A couple of people had some ODD choices but whatever, dude. They show themselves by doing that. My guess, though, is that they don't care. Tough to make people care.
  
  I think after the top 12 or 13 people randomly put in names. That could stem from match-ups or it could stem from not caring. I don't know. It could also come from the fact that for teams 15 through 25 there is an EXCELLENT chance that if you wrestled a match between two of those schools ten times you would end up with a different score and winner each time. (Think baseball double-headers. Team A wins 3-2 in the first game, then loses 15-2 in the second!?!?)
  
  Concerning dual strength against tournament strength... I like ranking teams for dual strength. It goves a truer sense of TEAM rankings; overall talent - overall depth. If I have a team that has 14 kids that all go 2 and 2 or even 2 or 3 a the District tournament - even though none of them place - I will not score one point at the state tournament. Moreover, depending on which of the first two rounds that loss was in - the team might not even place in the top 10 at Darby! However, my guess is, with that kind of team, there isn't one team in the area that could hang in a dual meet. I'm just saying.
  
  Also, if we judged on tournament strength, which tournament would you use? I'd say the tougher the tournament the more confusing it would be. If you choose a tournament with just area teams, then you are on the right path. I'd something like an 32-man, bracketed, OCC tournament with St. Charles, Brookhaven, Teays Valley, Marion Franklin, West, etc as a special guest, but braveman would get angry at me, so I won't. Besides we already do this sort of thing and call it the District tournament.
  
  But again, whatever, dude.
• Dad4Sports

  I'm just saying.....
• wrestledog

  I agree with you Crusier.....after 12 or 13 somes coaches just throw numbers out..... which is where the real problem could be if a random 12 pick got put with a top 5 team that could have been missed. The point shift would be 20 or so points towards a teams total score. Looking at the school seeds. 20 points could change the teams by as much as 3 spots.
• cruiser_96

  

  I hear ya, dog.
  
  wrestledog, that is.
• knightflyer150

  I spent a lot of time on my rankings and I STILL felt like I mis-ranked some teams in the middle. It is hard based only on records if you haven't seen.
  
  My bigger issue lies with the disparity in how sectional sites are chosen throughout the state. Does any other sport choose differently throughout the state? The arguement for "our way" is that is accurately balances sectionals. I say the opposite has happened; it has become a chess match, or worse, a gamble. I am OK with being in the "tough sectional" . . . in the end a team wrestles well or it doesn't. I have faith in my guys' ability. I just have an issue with different regions picking sites using different methods.
• lowsingle174

  As far as the rankings go, I am fine with them. You have to remember that you can't please all the people all of the time. If little jimmy is working out 24 hrs a day and doesn't get ranked he has obviously not proved his ranking. Whatever.... As far as the sectional selection process goes.......look down.
  
  
  I have an argument with the sectional selection. My squad is in the pickerington central sectional. Is it the toughest? In my opinion no. Does it mean I might get more kids out of sectionals? Yes. Are those kids going to get full credit for being district qualifiers, or is there going to be an imaginary asterick beside their name? I think the latter.. This may also factor into the attitude that other districts have about the central district being mediocre. Just my opinion, and I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I feel sectionals should be pre-determined instead of "Drafted" By coaches.....
  
  By the way, hillard davidson, and Newark ranked my team as the 3 worst in the district. We ended up ranked the 16th Best. Did they do any research, obviously not. Does it matter. Hell no. Do I care, not one bit.. It just shows that the voting is a Joke.
• Bitterrunner-up

  The Sectional selection process that Central District uses is stupid. Look at Northeast Ohio. Pre-determined Sectional assignments...and they're better than everybody else. Does it happen every once in a while that a wrestler doesn't get out of one Sectional that is one of the best 16 wrestlers in his district? Sure. But those guys are battle tested and by the time they get to The Schott they clean up on Central Ohio (and everyone else).
  
  As far as the "Coaches' poll", I don't remember there being one in Northeast Ohio. Four years of wrestling up there I don't ever remember anyone knowing about or caring about a list of names in the paper. But down here, kids and coaches live and die by it. It's the opinion (often uninformed) of a few coaches who bother to send in their votes.
• Shankapotamus

  I agree. I don't quite understand why the whole poll thing is used. Make it cut and dry and leave it alone. It would also help coaches plan proper scheduling for the up coming season. Coaches would be able to adjust and schedule opponents they are definitely going to see in the post season.
  
  The other OCC mystery to me is the Thursday night dual schedule. Why Thursdays? Wrestlers are given very little recovery time (either weightwise or bumps and ache wise) for weekend tournaments. A steady Wednesday night schedule seems to make much more sense to me. The extra day may not seem like much to outsiders, but it would make a difference.
• cruiser_96

  

  I personally like the draw, but then again, that's all I know. I think it adds to the chess match of it all, as well as some of the excitment!!!
  
  Go post-season!!! Whoooo!!!
• Bitterrunner-up

  It adds a chess match where there need not be one.
• lion69

  OK a few answers to this question. The drawing of sectional sites was made to even out competition at the sectionals. It used to be that certain districting made for uneven sectionals such as east west or north south. When it went to three sectionals it would be hard to keep it even and some school districts didn't want to have their schools always wrestle each other in the sectionals such as Westerville,Worthington, and Southwestern. The reason for Thursday night duals is simple basketball usually has short practice the day before their Friday games so is willing to give up the gym for a wrestling meet. I think the system is fair but does cause you to scatch your head as to why some of the top teams will but heads. The chess match is to get kids to the State. Remember sectionals are a qualifier. Some coaches set their good wrestlers up to have a better chance to get to the State by separating them from top wrestlers. The teams that are hurt are the ones who get seeded lower so they don't have a chance to pick their opponents. l
• Cthelites

  I have another question for the Cent District Gurus.
  
  I looked at the Fairfield District with their 3 Sectional qualifiers having 10 schools each. Darby District has 13 in each 3 sectionals. I'm a bit confused as to how it gets broken down. I always thought that the OHSAA broke everything down into equal parts.
• Shankapotamus

  lion,
  
  I hope that isn't the real reason for Thursday duals. If so, that is pathetic! Wrestlers should have just as much ownership in THEIR gyms as the basketball team.
• lion69

  Shank you must be young and an optimist. It is all about the money and who brings it in. Football and Basketball in most schools. In the state it is b-ball and football. Wrestling does well on the State level but not much in some local districts.
• ShockTheWorld !! !

  No Winn?! Must be some high schooler from Olentangy making these rankings... **cough**Brad Young**cough**. But seriously, Nicola has turned big unathletic Josh Winn into the most agile, nimble, quick, explosive, intelligent, heavyweight wrestler in Central Ohio! Come March Winn will be on that podium!
• knightflyer150

  Shock the World is simply a high school comedian who likes to rile everyone up (see "Zack Joseph" thread). He doesn't wrestle or play BB but he likes to chap everyones rear with his comments.
• bigdogdad

  As I have to keep reminding my son these polls and all the other reports i.e. Brakeman, Bucksman, and all others are opinions. Opinions are like b-holes, everyone has one, some are just bigger and stinkier than others. If everyone keeps it in perspective and reads it for the entertainment value, you will be fine. It's not like if you are ranked #1, you get a free pass to the Schott.