Ohio Chatter DEV

wraith51

Bold statement right there in the title! Honestly this is for discussion purposes only and not a movement to make it actually happen. I graduated from Reynoldsburg HS a central D1 team, over the weekend some of my wrestlers were asking me of my past accomplishments and as I was telling them about my junior year it hit me, why not move the central district back to 2 sectionals instead of 4!?

Back in my day, my junior year to be exact, the central district did this horrible experiment of taking the top 8 from 2 different sectionals to make a 16 man bracket at the district. Well, actually it wasn't as horrible as it sounds because some of those guys that finished 5th-8th at sectionals actually did very well at the district meet. Some of the 7th place guys upset the 2nd place guys in the 1st round. Darby district archives only go back to 2007 or I'd look up how well those lower 4 actually did.

Now, obviously, this means they would have to do a 2 day sectional which many of you do not like, but it would make the brackets fuller and make for some better match-ups. The brackets on baumspage are screwy or I would have done my homework to see how many kids in a bracket per weight if we would have combined lets say Marysville and UA for one and Newark and Watkins for another, but I'm sure there wouldn't be too many full 16 man brackets.

Now, the next question or concern is, wouldn't top 8 water down the district tournament? My reply, isn't it already watered down? You have 4 sectionals of 11 teams and not everyone has a full roster meaning someone is squirting through who normally wouldn't, or maybe they still would in the top 8 format.

Brackets would be 1 vs 8; 4 vs 5; 3 vs 6; and 2 vs 7.

It is what it is

Funny you should mention this. I actually had this conversation with the coach from TW at UA this weekend! Not sure how other coaches feel, but I definitely would prefer 2 sectionals taking the top 8. The brackets would be full, there would be better wrestling and.....I don't think wrestlers would squirt through that shouldn't.

Not gonna happen, however, but great topic of conversation!!

80baby

Okay just for conversation

This is my first year as a DII team and I said the same thing this weekend to a few coaches. With the numbers we should of just had one site and a two day sectional tournament with the top 8 advancing into the district tournament. However another coach said that if we did that we could loose some slots at the district tournament. This is only for DII but he stated that other districts could try to take some our slots at the district tournament.

As for DI two sites and a 2 day sectional tournament with the top 8 advance into the district tournament that would be interesting and exciting to see.

wraith51

80baby;1709544 wrote:Okay just for conversation

This is my first year as a DII team and I said the same thing this weekend to a few coaches. With the numbers we should of just had one site and a two day sectional tournament with the top 8 advancing into the district tournament. However another coach said that if we did that we could loose some slots at the district tournament. This is only for DII but he stated that other districts could try to take some our slots at the district tournament.

As for DI two sites and a 2 day sectional tournament with the top 8 advance into the district tournament that would be interesting and exciting to see.

I understand the argument that another site would try and take the central slots, but this is something that would be pre-determined when the districts/divisions are drawn per year. I don't know if you remember a time when central d1 district used to send 5 to the state and Mentor only sent 3? Was it fair/even? Not really but they agreed to it and made it work. If the sectional sites that central d2 combines with agree to it that central will combine to make 1 super sectional to send 8 and the other 2 sent 4 each, they could make 3 sectional sites work.

After I typed that I looked at d2 east, they could very easily do the same thing and make 1 super sectional, take top 8 and combine with central's super sectional.

Dad4Sports

For quite a while now, the enrollment numbers that come out every 2 years have been dropping. The D1/D2 and D2/D3 cutoffs continue to drop. Something has to give...

The present model will not be usable going forward. Already we are seeing some sectionals having a tough time sending 4 placers on to Districts (Barnesville had 2 wrestlers at 113 - are you kidding me!)...and there are numerous examples of weight classes with 4 or 5 participants.

Something has to give...

wraith51

Ok, so here's somewhat of the breakdown, if you combined Marysville/UA and Newark/Watkins Memorial the weight breakdowns would go as follows.
MV/UA
106-15
113-11
120-16
126-15
132-17
138-21
145-20
152-18
160-18
170-17
182-14
195-17
220-12
285-17

NE/WM
106-17
113-15
120-19
126-18
132-18
138-19
145-18
152-19
160-18
170-21
182-16
195-16
220-19
285-18

Majority of these seem pretty reasonable with one or 2 rattail matches, the weights that have over 20 kids would be tough. In this situation a tournament would have to wrestle the rattail round, round of 16, quarters, the rattail conso, and conso 1st rd. After that there should be no issue with the 5 matches, plus I'm sure in those first two rounds many kids at the sectional level that normally wouldn't make it through are being eliminated after day 1.

For the 20 man it would be 4 rattail matches and for 21 it would be 5, all others with rattail would get away with 1-3 rattail matches.

Dad4Sports

wraith51...

There were weight classes at the Cardington Sectional with 17 wrestlers competing for the 4 spots. They easily adjusted the schedule to fit the rattail matches in. 20 or 21 in a weight class would take some more maneuvering as you point out.

cruiser_96

So here is what I did. I took the top four of each sectional and I grouped them together kind of as above.

Marysville Sectional grouped with the Upper Arlington sectional, and then the Newark Sectional with the Watkins Memorial Sectional. Rather than try to rank the kids I just took was was given (M-1 through 4, and UA 1-4) and made them UA-1 through UA-8, alternating sites. M-1 = UA-1, UA-1 now = UA-2. M-2 = UA-3 and UA-2 = UA-4 now. And so on.

Click HERE for an example.

112in84

I like it just the way it is, jmo.

But this is a neat debate !

cruiser_96

Less of a debate; more of a discussion.

I, too, like how it is now.

wraith51

I know in D3 I'd like to see the southeast teams get dissolved into the east and Central and just have 2 super sectionals with top 8 making it out to the district. If this happened I wouldn't have as many district qualifiers as I did this year but you're definitely battle tested.

Dad4Sports

wraith51;1709854 wrote:I know in D3 I'd like to see the southeast teams get dissolved into the east and Central and just have 2 super sectionals with top 8 making it out to the district. If this happened I wouldn't have as many district qualifiers as I did this year but you're definitely battle tested.

I agree. This year it seems that the way the numbers shook out, Cardington was much deeper than the other 3 sectionals. I mean c'mon...wrestling rattails because there were 17 kids in a weight class on multiple occasions vs. some of the VERY low numbers at the other 3 sites (don't even get me started about Barnesville 113 with 2 entrants). If you went to 2 "super sectionals" that qualified the top 8, it would be much better IMO.

wraith51

Dad4Sports;1709865 wrote:I agree. This year it seems that the way the numbers shook out, Cardington was much deeper than the other 3 sectionals. I mean c'mon...wrestling rattails because there were 17 kids in a weight class on multiple occasions vs. some of the VERY low numbers at the other 3 sites (don't even get me started about Barnesville 113 with 2 entrants). If you went to 2 "super sectionals" that qualified the top 8, it would be much better IMO.

Even though I suggested it, I looked at it on a map again and forgot about the southeast being a logistical nightmare going as far south as the furthest tip of Ohio all the way out east to Marietta area. Those 2-3 teams in the southern most part would be hard to determine if they should go to the east or just travel north to wrestle in the central. We'd almost need to have a D1 school to host in Franklin Co unless there is someone in D3 in Columbus that could host. Then in the east Alexander could still potentially host or Barnesville even. I like Sandy Valley and think they do a nice job running their event with knowledgeable people in charge but they'd be too far north for those southeastern teams.

newbie75

I would like to see it go to 2 power sectionals, but it will never happen. I will say this though that some kids at the UA sectional could not wrestle for 5th/6th because they met the limit. I think something needs to be done for that. Does 5th/6th matter? No, but they shouldn't have to forfeit.

cruiser_96

5th/6th matters. It decides the alternate.

wraith51

newbie75;1709931 wrote:I would like to see it go to 2 power sectionals, but it will never happen. I will say this though that some kids at the UA sectional could not wrestle for 5th/6th because they met the limit. I think something needs to be done for that. Does 5th/6th matter? No, but they shouldn't have to forfeit.

Plus, if they went to 2 power sectionals it would have to go to a 2 day format and adjust rounds accordingly so no one will run into the 5 match rule. Now, something I never considered since Cruiser brought up alternates, if the power sectionals went to top 8 go to districts, how would we determine an alternate? Or would there be an alternate?

wraith51

Dad4Sports;1709865 wrote:I agree. This year it seems that the way the numbers shook out, Cardington was much deeper than the other 3 sectionals. I mean c'mon...wrestling rattails because there were 17 kids in a weight class on multiple occasions vs. some of the VERY low numbers at the other 3 sites (don't even get me started about Barnesville 113 with 2 entrants). If you went to 2 "super sectionals" that qualified the top 8, it would be much better IMO.

It took a lot of work but I broke it down what each sectional bracket would look like #s wise if we went to 2 power sectionals in D3. For the central, include all central district teams plus Adena, Paint Valley, Southeastern, Wellston, Westfall, Zane Trace, Chesapeake, and Fairland:

C/SE
106-17
113-19
120-18
126-19
132-22
138-18
145-22
152-21
160-18
170-23
182-22
195-22
220-21
285-20

The the other would be all the east plus the rest of the southeast:

E/SE
106-19
113-10
120-15
126-17
132-24
138-18
145-24
152-22
160-19
170-24
182-18
195-21
220-16
285-20

Interesting to see the actual breakdowns. Now, Cardington and Alexander had entry grids and I went by those only and I know some teams had kids scratch and not wrestle but the grid didn't change, doesn't matter I left it in. Sandy Valley and Barnesville are accurate with their #s based on guys who actually wrestled because they didn't have entry grids and had to go through the brackets and count.

Dad4Sports

wraith...

That is interesting...fun to talk about. I doubt the Central and East District boards could ever come together for something like this, but you never know. A few more years with weight classes with 2 entrants might stoke the fires! At least with your super sectional breakdown there would be more entrants than qualification spots at each weight!!

USMCdevil2005

Wonder if I could get a fundraiser together to get money to make it possible to have all divisions all central district sectionals at St. John's or the Schott

wraith51

USMCdevil2005;1710036 wrote:Wonder if I could get a fundraiser together to get money to make it possible to have all divisions all central district sectionals at St. John's or the Schott

I'm all for it!

rassler

Would it not make more sense to keep the current sectional and district model in place, but to go to 2 divisions instead of the current 3? Why make it complicated?

cruiser_96

I'd love to see two high school divisions.

Con_Alma

I'm still of the belief that one division would suffice for the individual tournament.

wraith51

rassler;1710213 wrote:Would it not make more sense to keep the current sectional and district model in place, but to go to 2 divisions instead of the current 3? Why make it complicated?

It's not that complicated, at least not for D1 since their district tournament really only involves the central district, moving to just 2 sectionals to 1 district wouldn't be a big issue. For D2 and D3, it does get complicated because it involves other regional districts like the east and southeast. So, combining them would make it difficult in who goes where which district gets split up, heaven forbid there is divisional movement that can throw the numbers off! The talk of combining those divisions was simply a talking point and for me something constructive to do during the day to break down those numbers like that.

We all know what I suggested won't happen, the roster numbers would have to dramatically decrease or teams from D1 drop to D2 and no D2 move up forcing D1 to have to consolidate down to 2 sectionals. Then if that were to happen they'll probably have to go back to the old format of combining with another district also. But, to the original topic, it would be very doable for the current system to combine to 2 sectionals and still get the best kids to move on.

newbie75

wraith51;1709979 wrote:Plus, if they went to 2 power sectionals it would have to go to a 2 day format and adjust rounds accordingly so no one will run into the 5 match rule. Now, something I never considered since Cruiser brought up alternates, if the power sectionals went to top 8 go to districts, how would we determine an alternate? Or would there be an alternate?

This does bring up a good point because now what happens if multiple kids get hurt or have skin funk come district time? Or do you just turn it into a bye? Or do you place the top 12?

Sorry cruiser, I didn't mean it in a bad way about 5th/6th. I feel that the whole 5 match limit is stupid when it comes to sectionals. It should be adjusted somehow because who knows getting 5th for a senior might give the opportunity to go to the Big Show. To have it shot down by a rule, I just think something should be adjusted.

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Move D1 Central District to 2 sectionals