Promoting is not ranking

• Gold eagle

  I feel as ambassadors of this sport we should turn away from rankings. Rankings truly mean nothing but in reality what matters are tournament and match results and we need to promote those everywhere, we need to call channel 10 news, local papers, the dispatch, hold bigger tournaments such as an occ tournament including all the divisions. A tournament like that would rival any tournament in the state regular season wise.
• Dust_E_Roads

  Rankings are not the boogeyman. You can do all the things you suggest, while still having rankings. And wrestling is not unique in having rankings. Almost all sports do. I don't see any downside in having them at all. Especially if you are talking, simultaneously, about trying to "promote" the sport.
  
  That being said, an OCC championship would be pretty epic. Two days, 32 man bracket.
  
  Could you get everyone to commit? Would all teams be willing to spend 3 points this way? A lot of their wrestlers would go 0-2 and be out soon. A lot of posters cite "too long tournaments" and too many "individual" tournaments are negatives to wrestling. I don't happen to agree, but such a tournament would have both, in spades.
• wraith51

  

  Dust_E_Roads;1707439 wrote:Rankings are not the boogeyman. You can do all the things you suggest, while still having rankings. And wrestling is not unique in having rankings. Almost all sports do. I don't see any downside in having them at all. Especially if you are talking, simultaneously, about trying to "promote" the sport.
  
  That being said, an OCC championship would be pretty epic. Two days, 32 man bracket.
  
  Could you get everyone to commit? Would all teams be willing to spend 3 points this way? A lot of their wrestlers would go 0-2 and be out soon. A lot of posters cite "too long tournaments" and too many "individual" tournaments are negatives to wrestling. I don't happen to agree, but such a tournament would have both, in spades.

  Just my opinion, but I think some would be on board so long as they didn't have to commit to league duals as well as a league tournament. Sure you'd be facing different competition than your league dual but a 3pt 2 day tourny AND 3-4 pts in duals, you're practically killing half of your schedule in league matches alone. In my opinion it's either/or.
  
  Before we switched conferences from the MBC to the MOAC we were locked into 3 pts worth of duals for the league and a 1 day 2pt conference tourny, then throw in that you see them in season tournaments, sectionals, and possibly districts, it got to be overkill. The MOAC just has the tournament and any duals you schedule within the conference is up to the individual school. So I can fill my 4 dual points with all league opponents or no league opponents, and I think that's the way to go if the OCC were to do a league tourny, don't lock them into duals too.
• Gold eagle

  I think doing this tournament and shrinking the dual schedule to simply no mandatory duals. Teams should be able to schedule whoever whenever and drop the occ duals. I feel two day tournaments bring out the true nature of the sport and show the grind and discipline it takes to be great.
• Tony Mead

  All OCC 2 day tourney would be sweet but nobody else wants it, especially the coaches. We could even set it up where pools the first day into a bracket the 2nd day kinda like marion's tourney where every kid gets 5-9 matches! Problem is Central Ohio spend so much time wrestling each other as it is. OCC duals, state duals, all the tourneys they spend together. Some of these kids wrestle each other 5 times! Then have to go into sectionals or districts or both against the same kids! Some of the OCC conferences are set up nice with full teams and make great duals, others are not as well off.
• cruiser_96

  

  I have a 32-man bracket created for the OCC.
  
  Each 8-team division is blocked off and the champs of each division are the overall semifinalists. The part I like is the end result is a tru-2nd for OCC honors within the division. My excel sheet is color coded and all! I'm a dork like that.
• cruiser_96

  

  But you guys are correct...no one wants it.
• Dust_E_Roads

  cruiser_96;1707477 wrote:But you guys are correct...no one wants it.

  The tournament or your spreadsheet?
• cruiser_96

  

  The tournament.
  
  I'll link the spreadsheet to the ITC website. I'll put it under "Upcoming Events".
  
  I'm getting ready to upload results from other conference tournaments. Stay tuned...
• KSU55

  Gold eagle;1707457 wrote:I think doing this tournament and shrinking the dual schedule to simply no mandatory duals. Teams should be able to schedule whoever whenever and drop the occ duals. I feel two day tournaments bring out the true nature of the sport and show the grind and discipline it takes to be great.

  I really think we are missing the mark. I think the intent of the thread is to discuss how wrestling can do a better job of promoting itself. While another 2-day tournament may be great for the hard core wresting fans, most folks don't want to deal with the "grind and the discipline" when it comes to watching and following. I would also like to hear from an OCC coach on whether they want to have a mega event that had you wrestling 80% of the same teams you are going to face in the sectionals and Darby.
  
  Again, if you want to grow the sport, don't do it by catering to the existing hard core base. What is the most fan friendly presentation of wrestling? It is the dual and dual style events. Don't get rid of them, do more with that format!!! Anybody enjoy Iowa - Mizzou, yesterday?
  
  Do more with rankings not less....fans like rankings even if coaches and wrestlers do not. Makes duals exciting, interesting, and educational. Mat side announcing makes a huge difference...see OSU in St. John. Make sure results are reported in a timely fashion.
  
  I know many hard core folks think this sport is niche or unique and want to hold true to long standing tradition. People can became fans without ever having worn a singlet. You don't need to change the integrity of the sport, but please don't further alienate the more casual observers by making it more difficult to identify with the sport.
• Gold eagle

  Obviously there are people out there who want it haha because we are talking about it. Cruiser I am loving how into this you are. And I love the idea of groups then move up to brackets and we could separate groups by divisions and cut out the duals
• Dust_E_Roads

  It can be argued that we already have a de facto 2 day OCC Championship. Its called Darby District. 76 of the top 84 finishers last year were from the OCC.
  
  Also not sure how reducing dual meets (or making them all non-league events) is supposed to make the sport more fan friendly. I think most people observe that dual formats are the best of engaging the casual fan and the fickle parent....
• cruiser_96

  

  One weight class is uploaded under "Upcoming Events". I put it together a few years back. I only changed Watkins and Canal. Teams in the divisions may have changed, but you'll get the point.
  
  As for duals - I am looking to move our team's schedule to them. Maybe 2x4s, but I like duals. I just hate having to travel across the city for one match. And when you can barely field 12 of the fourteen weight classes, it makes it tough to justify. Then parents have to pay the $4, $5, or $6 to watch little Johnny get a forfeit (or get pounded in a minute) and that's that!
  
  I have found that duals are great when you have two competitive teams going at it. Duals are not so great when both teams have two forfeits, and none align, so ten matches, and four of the wrestlers aren't quite varsity material but they are all you have so you send them out. #LambToSlaughter!
  
  But hey, I'm in it for the long haul. Keep up thedialogue. Something is bound to stick.
  
  ps: I like the Beauty and the Beast events. Great stuff. Others have done similar types of things. Excellent.
• cruiser_96

  

  ps: It is possible for two kids to wrestle twice in a three match span. (Loser of semifinal drops down, wins in conso and then faces the divisonal final loser. Could be the same match as before. True(r) second though. Whatevs. It'll never happen anyway.)
• Dust_E_Roads

  Cruise -- Agree. Few things in sport better than a great dual meet and few things worse than a bad one.
  
  2 x 4's are great alternative IMO.
• Dad4Sports

  Dust_E_Roads;1707525 wrote:Few things in sport better than a great dual meet and few things worse than a bad one.

  How very true!!
• 1_beast

  

  4 x 2 's? 2 x 4's ? State? States?