Dispatch article on Cent Oh dismal performance at State

• VinceD

  District are you ready? I can feel for each of your replies but let's just allow the numbers speak for themselves.
  
  3 finalists in D1 out of 28 equals 11%. 1 State champ out of 28 equals less than 1%. 21 state placers out of 112 equals less than 19%. If we don't agree that these numbers are at best horrible well then I am sorry.
  
  Contrary to what ksig489 says or may think, the Central District was never this bad...ever.
  
  For example, in 1977 the CCL alone qualified 22 of the distrtricts 26 state qualifiers. We all practiced as a one team at DeSales for the state tourney including Paul Hackett from Hamilton TWP, who's son is now the head coach at Hamilton TWP. That year DeSales won the team title in AA (D2 now) with 2 state champs, Bishop Ready was second in AA by a mere 3 points with 2 state champs and Bishop Watterson finished 8th with 1 state champ.
  
  Father Wehrle and Bishop Hartley were in A (now D3), with 1 state champ and both finished in the top 10. Not to mention that Grove City coached by Pete Allen, father of Jason Allen finished 3rd in AAA (now D1) with 2 state champs and only 3 kids on the team. Tom Foley won at Worthington that year.
  
  9 state champs divided by 78 state finalists is over 11%. And that does not include the other finalists from the area. As I said, most of us at A and AA practiced together at DeSales. That doesn't happen anymore.
  
  In 1978 we were embarrassed to only have 3 state champs, with less than 5% of the 78 finalists.
  
  In 1979 the Central District actually won 8 of the A (D3 now) titles of 13 weights with only 13 qualifiers.
  
  So stop it! It is not a coverage problem from the media. It is not an exposure problem. It is a commitment problem from the coaches and the wrestlers.
  
  We don't need to send our kids to specialists like Miron...by the way...I admire Miron. We need to have a FREE OPEN Mats just like the ones conducted by my Uncle Bob Dieli and Pete Allen back in the day where the best could compete against the best daily. We need coaches to quit being worried/asinine that they may be helping someone else's kid. We need kids/coaches committed to wrestling in the spring and summer and not just at a camp but rather in an open meet, whether it be Freestyle or Folkstyle. And if anyone wishes to argue for Greco....please. It is a different sport altogether.
  
  Should you question what I just said, ask Brandon Moody or even my own brother Dom about the North Akron Wrestling Club and how it transformed Walsh and CVCA and all of the programs in that area.
• jmog

  I will say this, the NAWC is top notch. They are a youth program that practices at Walsh and from February to October they invite ANY and ALL youth kids from the area to practice there for open mats.
  
  My son goes to 1 or 2 open mats there a week from February to July every year. If I could "convince" him to do it he would wrestle with them during the season as well, but he wants to wrestle with his friends from school (school club). They have great coaches and teach great technique for a youth program. He learns more than in 1 open mat a week in a couple months than he does in 4 practices a week from November to February with our school club.
  
  The coaches are great with the kids too, teaching one on one with even all the kids who do not wrestle with NAWC.
• GregHines

  mella;1107354 wrote:I have a few responses:
  
  1. Central Ohio as a whole, does not have the long history and tradition of wrestling like the Cleveland area. I think it has been growing very quickly, talent is spread out instead of being concentrated. Imagine if the Olentangy Schools had one team instead of three. That would improve the quality of the wrestling room and raise the bar for the team. The really good kids are not being challenged enough on a daily basis. (Central OH has produced very good wrestlers just not on a consistant basis.)
  
  2. The toughness of the Central Ohio suburban kid can be called into question. I grew up in Erie Pa., A dying blue collar town kind of like Cleveland. Sometimes their is an inherent toughness to the people in areas like that. Central Ohio is filled with a softer brand of parent.
  
  3. Calling the Dispatch a newspaper is insulting to newspapers. That rag does not know what to do with non-OSU stories. I would be great if it supported and covered wrestling on a weekly basis.

  Mella, I agree with most of what you say 100%. However, the parents are not out there wrestling, the kids are. Great athletes are great because they have the drive not because the parents do. I think it would be much more accurate to say "Central Ohio is filled with a softer brand of wrestler." Not all, but clearly way more than the NE part of the state.
• mella

  cruiser_96;1107548 wrote:ps: mella... General McClain would crush Fairview in anything. But McDowell will always reign supreme! Long live WLD Ranch!!!

  I'm impressed. But Prep has McDowell's number. I'm an Academy grad. Don't know it you are old enough to be familiar with Academy.
• mella

  GregHines;1108414 wrote:Mella, I agree with most of what you say 100%. However, the parents are not out there wrestling, the kids are. Great athletes are great because they have the drive not because the parents do. I think it would be much more accurate to say "Central Ohio is filled with a softer brand of wrestler." Not all, but clearly way more than the NE part of the state.

  I guess I was implying that some of the toughness comes from the parents. Yes, the athletes are out there doing it, but Mom and Dad set the tone early in life by letting a little discomfort into the kid's life. Sometimes the umbilical cord is left attached a little too long.
• Ozzie8383

  Guys,
  
  I love the discussion. I think there are several things that can be considered "broken" when it comes to Central Ohio wrestling. But, before anything can be fixed, we must realize that it will not and cannot be fixed over night.
  
  One thing that I have heard over and over by plenty of people (Coach Marinelli, Vince, Mr. Donatelli, myself, ect...) is that we need to get our best kids on the mat together. I think that there are options being made to make this happen (Ready open mats, CDWCA open mats, Ohio Capitals Club, ect...) so I think that we are on the right track. Yet, even if we have quality kids attending all of these workouts during the season and in the off-season are we going to catch up? No, we are not... The reason is because not only does NE Ohio have the best High School kids in the area working out together, they also have the best youth kids and Middle School kids working out together. That is where they have the edge. That is where they have always had the edge.
  
  The North Akron Club is a great example of how a youth wrestling club can build more than just a great High School program; it can build a great wrestling community. The majority of kids that have spent time with North Akron do not end up attending Walsh, but it is a way to get the best kids together. It is also a way to get the best Youth, Middle School and High School Coaches together. I never coached at Walsh, but I have spent quite a bit of time in that room, with many different age groups, and I have been blessed to learn a lot from some of the best coaches in the area, regardless of level.
  
  Does every youth / Middle School club have to be as intense as North Akron? No, but it should lead to that level. Some kids need to learn the basics at a slower pace and need to feel reward for success, but the road should not end there; the road should lead to a more intense atmosphere (hence a North Akron Club). It is ok to have a community club that teaches the basics, and it is ok to eventually have the best kids leave the community club to join an “All-Star” club... That is exactly how it works in the Akron area. Almost everyone that I know from that area began wrestling in their community youth club, and once they started seeing success and were ready to take the sport more seriously they would move on to the North Akron Club. I think that the closest thing that we have had to that (as of late) is the DeSales club. Coaches in that area embrace their youth kids joining a powerful club (because they know the coaching is quality) and lick their chops when they get to High School. One of the mottos that I have heard from coaches in that area all of the time is, “It does not matter where they come from, it matters what you do with them”.
  
  Again, this is not going to change overnight, and I know a lot of coaches are trying to get more and more involved with their youth programs, but from what I have seen, the “secret to success” is getting Youth and Middle School kids together to elevate all of their levels.
  
  I will step off of my soap box now. Keep discussing though; I am enjoying the enthusiasm!
• queencitybuckeye

  mella;1108434 wrote:I guess I was implying that some of the toughness comes from the parents. Yes, the athletes are out there doing it, but Mom and Dad set the tone early in life by letting a little discomfort into the kid's life. Sometimes the umbilical cord is left attached a little too long.

  OK, so do you disagree with the gist of Vince D's response, or were the kids in Central Ohio at about the same toughness level as the Northeast back then, but "we" have somehow lost that toughness while "they" have not?
• mella

  QuQueencity, Yes, we have lost some of that toughness. I think that alot of suburbanites have moved in over that last 10 to 15 years (see the growth of Dublin, Hilliard, the Olentangy area for example) and I do believe that the culture of wrestling along with the "attitude" has been watered down in central OH. Yes, I live in the suburbs and I can only shake my head at times when I see an inability of kids to work hard toward a goal. We have some very good wrestlers who work very hard. I think the talent is spread too far apart so the good kids are not being pushed in practice on a daily basis.
• GregHines

  mella;1108434 wrote:I guess I was implying that some of the toughness comes from the parents. Yes, the athletes are out there doing it, but Mom and Dad set the tone early in life by letting a little discomfort into the kid's life. Sometimes the umbilical cord is left attached a little too long.

  Mella, I do agree, completely, that hard work towards a goal over a long time has been forgotten by many. It is the long term degradation of American society. Very few people understand the reality of the 10,000 hour rule. Ask the best, though, they get it.
• knightflyer150

  GregHines;1108697 wrote:the reality of the 10,000 hour rule

  Excellent.
• ksig489

  VinceD;1108235 wrote: Contrary to what ksig489 says or may think, the Central District was never this bad...ever.

  I never said the Central was bad. Don't put words in my mouth.
  
  What I said was that NE Ohio is the best wrestling region in the US.
• cruiser_96

  

  ksig489;1108769 wrote:I never said the Central was bad. Don't put words in my mouth.
  
  What I said was that NE Ohio is the best wrestling region in the US.

  So you agree there was a second shooter, somewhere by the grassy knoll, that took out Kennedy!? And based on the above quote, it is obvious you believe the moon is made out of cheese! Well, if it was, would you eat it??? ... I would!
• ksig489

  There was a shooter on top of the overpass as well just in case the first 2 missed!
  
  And as long as it is Sharp Cheddar...than YES!
• cruiser_96

  

  Cheez-Its have a few new flavors and they are divine!!!
• Bitterrunner-up

  VinceD;1108235 wrote:...It is not a coverage problem from the media. It is not an exposure problem. It is a commitment problem from the coaches and the wrestlers.
  
  We don't need to send our kids to specialists like Miron...by the way...I admire Miron. We need to have a FREE OPEN Mats just like the ones conducted by my Uncle Bob Dieli and Pete Allen back in the day where the best could compete against the best daily. We need coaches to quit being worried/asinine that they may be helping someone else's kid. We need kids/coaches committed to wrestling in the spring and summer and not just at a camp but rather in an open meet, whether it be Freestyle or Folkstyle. And if anyone wishes to argue for Greco....please. It is a different sport altogether.
  
  Should you question what I just said, ask Brandon Moody or even my own brother Dom about the North Akron Wrestling Club and how it transformed Walsh and CVCA and all of the programs in that area.

  Well said.
  
  I've been trying for over a decade to build an open mat, first at Central Crossing then at Ready, to no avail. Central Ohio wrestling is fragmented. It's very different than wrestling in the Northeast. Kids stay home and have an open mat or club with 10 or 12 (often time much less) of their own wrestlers rather than venture out and combine in one room with the best from the region. People complain about driving to this site or that site? Nothing in Central Ohio is more than half an hour away. Wrestlers (including myself back in the day) come from all over northest Ohio to attend Solon's open mats. It was nothing to roll with a kid from Oak Harbor or Kent Roosevelt or even as far south as North Canton at those Solon mats.
• Westie101

  

  I always liked the central ohio open mat idea, but that they shouldnt have moved.
• cruiser_96

  

  This year Upper Arlington gets April and May. As far as I know, it will stay there. It might not, but it may.
  
  Also, Monday night's are going to be special this year. Hilliard Davidson will run seven or eight clinics ($30 for ALL of them) from 5-6:30pm. That's pretty sweet.
• 2takedown2

  What are dates for Hillard open mats? UA? Here is what I know:
  
  - Olentangy Orange on Monday and Wednesday from 6-7:30
  - Olentangy Liberty on Sunday and Thursday?
  - Vengeance on Monday (Delaware) and Tuesday (Big Walnut) at 6:30
  
  -Bishop Ready on Sundays?
• cruiser_96

  

  Sunday: Bishop Ready - 6pm, Apr. 15th
  Monday: Hilliard Darby - 6:45pm, Ohio Capitals Club - pretty sure they will run through T of C.
  Monday: Hilliard Davidson - 5 to 6:30pm ($30), starts April 2nd
  Tuesday: Groveport Madison - slated to start on April 17th, 5pm
  Wednesday: Upper Arlington - Central Ohio Open Mats ...I'm thinking 6:30pm (but don't hold me to it. If it changes I'll let you know.)
  
  For the sessions with no times, I will get clarification for a start time. I will also confirm a start date if there is t one.
• powerdouble

  Looking for a room with bigger kids in it? Any suggestions?
• Westie101

  

  groveport / bishop ready.
• american guesser

  

  What do marysville and olentangy do in the offseason?
• Dirtyscramble

  

  american guesser;1109539 wrote:What do marysville and olentangy do in the offseason?

  Most of those guys play other sports, or this is there break season, but you will see a few of them pop there heads up at these open mats listed
• FSUBIGMAC

  american guesser;1109539 wrote:What do marysville and olentangy do in the offseason?

  Hoping to get some big guys out at Orange open mats when they start up.
• huntergreen26

  The opportunities and ideas are out there and available. The Central Ohio open mats will be at Upper Arlington on Wednesday nights from 6-8 starting in April. Coach Riggs moved it to a more central location to accomodate more people. It will stay there throughout the spring. Hopefully the numbers are good and the kids and coaches commit to it. I know that we planned our club to work around these open mats. I want as many of my kids there as possible. If you have questions about start times, dates or locations, you can PM me or e-mail me at [email protected], or you can contact Coach Riggs at Bradley. This is idea that started last year and will continue to grow from here. Promote it as much as possible to as many as you can and we can get Central Ohio back to the old form!