Does the OCC really work as a conference?

• RussianBear

  Curious to know how many people are happy with their schools involvment with the OCC. For my part, I don't really understand the value of being in a conference that is so large that not everybody wrestles/plays against each other. Its not really clear to me what it means to be a conference/division champion either as a team or as an individual. In football, you can win your division and make first team, but if you are in one of the weaker divisions (read not with Hillard, Dublin, and Pickeringon schools) it really doesn't appear to mean very much. I'm not putting down the quality of the other teams, in fact there are many very good teams across the entire OCC. However, it would be hard for me to argue that a football division with Hilliard schools, Dublin Coffman, and UA wasn't a much more competitive group.
  
  You see a similar situation in wrestling, in my opinion.
  
  I do understand why we can't have a single two day OCC tournament (sort of- previous topic on here). It just doesn't seem like the OCC ever determines anything real in terms of a conference champion or the individuals named to the all conference team. I thik the Metro is much better at recognizing individuals then the conference itself. So why does the OCC exist? Is it just for administrative purposes?
• said_aouita

  

  RussianBear;1072354 wrote: I do understand why we can't have a single two day OCC tournament (sort of- previous topic on here).

  I missed the previous topic, why can't OCC have a conference championship?
  I
• nykc

  

  I agree and the upcoming division changes in my opinion make it worse for some schools at the bottom of that pile.
  
  My example would be focused on the OCC Central - In my opinion the toughest football conference and soon to be wrestling conference.
  
  Currently you have:
  Hilliard Davidson
  Dublin Coffman
  Upper Arlington
  
  In contention for 1,2,3 annually
  
  Then usually:
  Darby
  Kilbourne
  
  In battle for the middle of the pack
  
  And finally:
  Thomas,Central Crossing and Westland competing to see who has the worst football in the conference.
  
  Now in the wrestling and football world Darby and Kilbourne are gone to the OCC Capital and Liberty and Marysville are gracing the OCC Central with their presence to establish themselves in a perennial battle for dominance.
  
  My predictions for next year OCC Central standings in wrestling and similar in football but with Davidson, Coffman and UA leading the way and Marysville and Liberty taking over where Kilbourne and Darby left off.
  
  Marysville
  Liberty
  Davidson
  Coffman
  Upper Arlington
  Central Crossing
  Thomas Worthington
  Westland
  
  I would love to see another layer of complexity added towards the end of the season and have a 32 team OCC battle to see who stands where.
• said_aouita

  

  Wow, I didn't realize their was a conference which didn't have a championship tourney.
• nykc

  

  Not only do they not have a championship tourney, they are the LARGEST conference in the state of OHIO with 32 teams.
• cruiser_96

  

  I've said it for years... It's too big.
• RidgeRunner33

  I wasn't aware there were going to be changes in the divisions. Can someone post what the new divisions will look like?
• booboo

  Do you think that the team duals will make a difference in sorting things out? http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/wr/boys/2011/LetterRegardingTeamTournament.pdf
  
  
  I do think that 32 teams is too many to manage without some sort of equity of skill/size/available resources added into the equation. Like most things, the available money and parental support levels change so much of what the kids are able to accomplish.
• booboo

  RidgeRunner33;1072567 wrote:I wasn't aware there were going to be changes in the divisions. Can someone post what the new divisions will look like?

  I only know the new Central division, starting next fall
  
  Marysville
  Dublin Coffman
  Central Crossing
  Olentangy Liberty
  Hilliard Davidson
  Thomas Worthington
  Upper Arlington
  Westland
• RidgeRunner33

  Thanks booboo. I also think the conference is way to big. You could go your whole high school career without seeing half the teams in your own conference. With the current setup, there's no way you could determine a true conference champion.
• american guesser

  

  If there was a tourney, then they couldn't vote on who was 1st team. Also, we would not be able to sit in a gym for 4 hours on a thursday night to watch a tri meet where established state caliber programs beat up on programs still being built laced with 5 forfeits by like 60 points. Everyone knows you free up points having a tournament and then have to pick your duals and that would only result in big crowds, gates and help grow wrestling excitment in central ohio.
• CoachTim

  said_aouita;1072497 wrote:Wow, I didn't realize their was a conference which didn't have a championship tourney.

  The MSL does not have a tourney either. Up until last year the 3 MSL divisions, had duals that paired every team up against each other in the division and awarded a champion to each division, not one for the conference. This year only the buckeye division stayed with the duals, the Cardinal and Ohio divisions went away from the duals.
  
  Does the OCC award 1 league champ or 1 for each division?
• Cthelites

  OCC has 4 separate leagues which wrestle each other in team dual format to declare the league and individual championships.
  Its a little conveluted with the indi placements since there are bumping and cutting going on to try to win the duals.
  I would like to see an indi tourney but doubt it wil ever happen.
  I think the big argument against was you will see the same kids at District, but doesnt all leagues face the same things.
  I dont think that held much water until this yr.
  You use to have a totally different sectional (Dayton) coming over(along with TV CW and City) and also having a half dozen good D2 teams in the OCC that werent in the district. I think a league pre qualifying tourney on day 1 to a full conference title tourney on day 2 would have been really exciting(take your top 3 or 4 from each league to that bracket).
  Now with the 4 local sectionals and those D2 schools bumping and CW joining, it will never happen since it didnt happen before.
• maddog140

  As a former coach I was never in the opinion that wrestling a kid you will see at sectionals or districts as a bad thing. Just the opposite. I want to see those kids so I know what we need to do to advance to the next level and if I had a kid someone was gunning for I wanted that match as well, because if you plan on getting on the podium at the schott you better believe everyone you face will be gunning for you and you need to know how to deal with that. They need to have a league tourney if you ask me, but then again what do I know???
• bigdogdad

  Then what do you do about splitting out DI vs. DII teams? In no way is it fair for a Big Walnut trying to match up with a Hilliard or Dublin school twice it's size. I'm not sure how many people really care who the king of the OCC is. Each school really looks at it with each division being it's own league per se'. None of the other sports seem to care about a overall champion. Wrestling is the only sport where this seems to always be brought up. And if anything, it is the most individualized sport of all the mainline sports. When they tried going to the one day division tournament a few years ago it was a disaster in my opinion. If you have a few kids hurt, sick, not make weight, etc. your chances were out the door. In my experience +90% of the time a division champ stays in one weight class and is usually the odds on best anyway. Rarely is their much of a question who the best was. I would be willing to bet, if you asked each wrestler if they cared that they did not get to wrestle 31 other kids a over whelming majority would say no.
  
  Finally, is our current set-up really any different than say the NFL. You have division champs, then conference, then league. Wrestling just goes about it in a different manner. We have division/league, district, sectional, then state. In the end it all works out who is the best. No system is ever going to be perfect.
• cruiser_96

  

  Agree or disagree: part of the problem is that we don't gain anything by winning or lose anything by placing last in our division?
• RussianBear

  Agree that we don't gain anything by winning or losing. The one value that I do see in having the OCC is that is does bring more attention to the atheletes in all sports. This in turn can help with getting some sort of help with college. Outside of that the only thing that I see is the savings on administrative costs.
  
  I don't think that in football, people care as much about winning their conference as getting into the playoffs. Perhaps I am wrong. Regarding the DI/DII argument. If you are that concerned about the size differential then maybe you shouldn't be in a league that has mostly DI schools.
• Tony Mead

  Ive been saying for years. These duals hold back alot of kids. Rather see a huge tourny which is what the kids are preparing for every year to win state! Make one big tourny and add a few more tournys with the extraPoints. Matter of fact all these "mandated duals" should not count towards ones points for the season.
• ontheline

  

  Tony Mead;1075115 wrote:Ive been saying for years. These duals hold back alot of kids. Rather see a huge tourny which is what the kids are preparing for every year to win state! Make one big tourny and add a few more tournys with the extraPoints. Matter of fact all these "mandated duals" should not count towards ones points for the season.

  "LIKE" - duals hold back a lot of kids.
  
  Scrap the mandated OCC division duals, and let the teams schedule their own dual / tri match-ups which would allow teams to create a tougher (or weaker) schedule...whatever floats your boat. Then, thanks to OHSAA changes, we could simply use the central district tournament to crown an OCC champion.