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OHSAA State Dual Team Information

  • Con_Alma
    TO: WRESTLING HEAD COACHES, ATHLETIC DIRECTORS & ASSIGNERS

    FROM: HENRY ZABORNIAK, JR, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER

    RE: DUAL TEAM TOURNAMENT & SCHEDULE ADJUSTMENT BEGINNING 2012-13

    CC: DISTRICT ATHLETIC BOARD MEMBERS – December 14, 2010

    Your OHSAA State Board of Directors adopted an additional state Wrestling Tournament beginning with the 2012-13 school year. The OHSAA will now sponsor and conduct both the historic individual tournament and the new and exciting dual or team tournament. To enter the dual team tournament a school team must fill a minimum of eight weight classes. The traditional tournament will continue to be conducted in a sectional/district/state format. In 2012-13 sectionals will begin the week of February 11, 2013 and the state tournament will be held at The Ohio State University Schottenstein Center February 28-March 2. The OHSAA dual team tournament will be conducted in a regional/state format.

    The state will be divided into eight regions each having approximately 24 teams (per division). Each region will be geographically subdivided in half. Each half region will seed four teams. Regional quarterfinals will be held at the highest seeded schools on Wednesday, January 23, 2013. The winning two teams will advance to the Regional semifinals on Wednesday, January 30, 2013. One team from each semi-final will advance to the regional finals held on Wednesday, February 6, 2013. Eight Regional Champions per division will meet on Saturday, February 9, 2013 to wrestle for the OHSAA Dual TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP. The state tournament site is yet to be determined.

    We anticipate that this communication will reach you with enough notice in order for you to modify any anticipated schedule so that it does not conflict with these tournament dates. Additional information will be forthcoming as our Team Tournament planning and implementation advisors provide recommendations to the OHSAA Board of Directors.

    Currently there are 600 OHSAA member high schools that sponsor wrestling for approximately 14,000 student-athletes. By sponsoring a true team tournament we anticipate more youngsters participating in the future. We believe that interscholastic athletic programs enrich each student’s educational experience, promote good citizenship, healthy lifestyles and academic achievement.

    Best wishes in all you do.

    Advisors:
    Coaches: John Riggs, Hilliard Darby; Troy Roth, Montpelier; Gary Wise, Beavercreek;
    Frank Baxter, Fairmont; Bill Roll, Versailles (retired)
    Athletic Directors: Mike Dellapina, Hamilton; Cal Adams, Marysville
    OHSAA Board Members: Walt Skaggs, St. Clairsville; Jose Hernandez, Fremont Ross
    State Tournament Manager: Dr. Bruce Maurer
    Director of Wrestling Officiating Development: Jim Vreeland, Oak Harbor

    4080 Roselea Place, Columbus, OH 43214. (614) 267-1677. www.ohsaa.org
  • USMCdevil05
    sweet!
  • CoachTim
    The south east D2 sectional had 17 teams last year, technically 16 because one had less than 8 wrestlers.
    If we pick up another sectional to make it the same size as a region, 1/8th of the state.
    How many teams will we have in our region?
    If a quarter region has 8 teams (i assume 8 is the max they will allow, 6 is be the stated average), they will have to run 4 mat's in round 1, 2 in round 2 and a finals round to get done in 3 rounds on a Wednesday night. Otherwise it will make for a very late night with school the next day. We have enough trouble finding a school to set up 4 mats for a 17 team sectional.
    Anyone else think about this?
  • Con_Alma
    I want to know if there will be unified criteria for seeding across the State unlike the garbage we have now for the individual tournament.
  • cruiser_96
    Wrestling might have to begin at 4 or 4:30pm. Then, in the final round, they could use 2 mats and split the dual. Which, IMO, is a HORRIBLE idea/format.

    Not enough details for me to wholesale write off or buy into.
  • CoachTim
    The coaches in a half region come to one location to seed their teams and the non seeded teams pick a line based on a draw like each sectional does now?


    Actually with OHSAA requiring teams to enter results on MyOHSAA.org, they might have an automatic criteria that way based on results entered...
  • CoachTim
    cruiser_96;601975 wrote:Wrestling might have to begin at 4 or 4:30pm. Then, in the final round, they could use 2 mats and split the dual. Which, IMO, is a HORRIBLE idea/format.

    Not enough details for me to wholesale write off or buy into.

    No way can they split a dual as important as this would be! You are probably right about bumping the start time up.
    And don't get me wrong, I do think this is a great idea.
  • Con_Alma
    CoachTim;601976 wrote:The coaches in a half region come to one location to seed their teams and the non seeded teams pick a line based on a draw like each sectional does now?

    ...
    How they seed them is the question I have. ...based on what criteria? Will it be uniform across the State?
    CoachTim;601976 wrote:...
    Actually with OHSAA requiring teams to enter results on MyOHSAA.org, they might have an automatic criteria that way based on results entered...
    I sure hope this or at least some uniform manner is enforced.
  • cruiser_96
    Go Army! Beat Navy!!! :)
  • Jmar25
    I'm sorry... This is stupid... I don't like this idea. What is wrong with the current state dual system we have? Now you're asking teams to waste points (i'm guessing this will cost points). It's too close to sectionals/districts. There is just too many holes and concerns I believe. Is ohio the only state to do something like this?
  • Con_Alma
    cruiser_96;601999 wrote:Go Army! Beat Navy!!! :)

    Heyyyyyy. :(

    9 in a row in football!

    When it comes to wrestling, Navy leads all time Navy, 44-5-5 :)

    This year they go at it February 19th @ West Point.
  • CoachTim
    Jmar25;602003 wrote:What is wrong with the current state dual system we have?

    4 wrestlers can't win a dual meet, but with the current system they can win a team title...
    Jmar25;602003 wrote:Now you're asking teams to waste points (i'm guessing this will cost points).
    Current State Duals Tournament don't cost points, why would this? I'm guessing this will NOT cost points.
    Jmar25;602003 wrote: It's too close to sectionals/districts.
    I think it's good timing because the team tournament will be finished before the kids go into the sectional tournament. When would you host it?
    Jmar25;602003 wrote: Is ohio the only state to do something like this?
    No, I know Michigan does.
    Does anyone else know other states that has a separate team tournament?
  • cruiser_96
    Con_Alma;602005 wrote:Heyyyyyy. :(

    9 in a row in football!

    When it comes to wrestling, Navy leads all time Navy, 44-5-5 :)

    This year they go at it February 19th @ West Point.

    See you then, my friend.......

    ps: We have Heskett.
  • Con_Alma
    cruiser_96;602036 wrote:...
    ps: We have Heskett.

    Yes, I heard some rumor along those lines! :)

    You should know, however, that he's not allowed to wrestle! Lol.
  • 951123rd
    This will be rough on teams in leagues where we wrestle duals throughout the week. Our league (MSL-Buckeye) wrestles every Thursday from mid January through the week before sectionals. Now with the new state duals, my kids will be required to maintain weight three days during the week if we have a Saturday tournament. Our team doesn't cut too hard throughout the season, but usually work our way down during this time of the season. It is just a lot on the body for those kids maintaining weight to be required to weigh in three times in one week.
  • CoachTim
    951123rd;602051 wrote:This will be rough on teams in leagues where we wrestle duals throughout the week. Our league (MSL-Buckeye) wrestles every Thursday from mid January through the week before sectionals. Now with the new state duals, my kids will be required to maintain weight three days during the week if we have a Saturday tournament. Our team doesn't cut too hard throughout the season, but usually work our way down during this time of the season. It is just a lot on the body for those kids maintaining weight to be required to weigh in three times in one week.

    True. The MSL coaches may get together and try to move the dates of the MSL matches closer to x-mas or something, but that will not work because there is not enough weeks. This will take a lot of thought and be a major adjustment all over the state.
    And I know exactly what you mean. I could never have made weight 3 times in one week in high school!
  • Jmar25
    CoachTim;602011 wrote:4 wrestlers can't win a dual meet, but with the current system they can win a team title...


    Current State Duals Tournament don't cost points, why would this? I'm guessing this will NOT cost points.


    I think it's good timing because the team tournament will be finished before the kids go into the sectional tournament. When would you host it?

    1) What is wrong with this? Every other tournament has the same stipulations unless it is a team dual tourney.... (Dies,MIT, Iron Man, ect...) What's wrong with deciding the state champion in the same way as the most prestigious regular season tourney's? Especially when we already decide a team champion through the individual tournament (which is the most recognized anyway) and the current state dual system. (which most of the top 5/6 teams on the board at the state tournament are included in anyway?!?!)

    I see this acting a lot like college football. Too many bowls that mean nothing. Why doesn't the state give a ribbon to every kid that joins the wrestling team? We already crown 14 state champs x 3= 42 kids.... Then in the last couple years we've added 7th/8th place. So we went from rewarding 252 kids to 336 kids now. Now we are adding more and watering down the achievements. Plus when it comes down to it.... which one do kids want to win more?!?! Sure both is nice but everyone is wanting the big tournament win. We're watering things down even more.

    Also... you say 4 can't win a dual.... can 8???? obviously yes it is possible but highly unlikely against a full team. Why allow a team to participate that will give up 6 forfeits? You're down 36-0. Needs tweaked even more.

    Next, one of the biggest complaints have been about the amount of matches some kids have and the grind of the season. This just adds to it. This won't affect some teams, especially the ones that already in the state duals. The difference is your pushing more matches on kids later in the season when the "real" season starts just before league/sectionals/districts. Increasing wear and tear. Plenty of teams throttle down a bit right before this. (Some have a minor dual, nothing, or a league tournament right before this time) So that opportunity goes out the door now for a few teams with a "state tournament" before the state tournaments.

    Lastly what is to stop a team from "BCS'n" their schedule? Load up their duals schedule with lesser teams? Gain a higher seed? Then if we look at seeding. I know it doesn't say but I'm betting to say that the teams that get seeded will be looked at as in who is most likely to have the most kids going to state or shot at state?!?! Which is the same basic way we schedule the state duals as is right?!?!

    2) I'm sure they can do that but i answered my concern above.
    3) I wouldn't host it period. The current format is fine. Have it beginning/middle of Jan on one day. Not spread out over the course of weeks and right up to the tournament time.

    I see no need for this with the current system in place...
  • Coach Hennosy
    Great idea!!! Finally ... starts in 2 years. Plenty of time to work out the details.
  • CoachTim
    Jmar25;602096 wrote:1) What is wrong with this? Every other tournament has the same stipulations unless it is a team dual tourney.... (Dies,MIT, Iron Man, ect...) What's wrong with deciding the state champion in the same way as the most prestigious regular season tourney's? Especially when we already decide a team champion through the individual tournament (which is the most recognized anyway) and the current state dual system. (which most of the top 5/6 teams on the board at the state tournament are included in anyway?!?!)

    I see this acting a lot like college football. Too many bowls that mean nothing. Why doesn't the state give a ribbon to every kid that joins the wrestling team? We already crown 14 state champs x 3= 42 kids.... Then in the last couple years we've added 7th/8th place. So we went from rewarding 252 kids to 336 kids now. Now we are adding more and watering down the achievements. Plus when it comes down to it.... which one do kids want to win more?!?! Sure both is nice but everyone is wanting the big tournament win. We're watering things down even more.

    Also... you say 4 can't win a dual.... can 8???? obviously yes it is possible but highly unlikely against a full team. Why allow a team to participate that will give up 6 forfeits? You're down 36-0. Needs tweaked even more.

    Next, one of the biggest complaints have been about the amount of matches some kids have and the grind of the season. This just adds to it. This won't affect some teams, especially the ones that already in the state duals. The difference is your pushing more matches on kids later in the season when the "real" season starts just before league/sectionals/districts. Increasing wear and tear. Plenty of teams throttle down a bit right before this. (Some have a minor dual, nothing, or a league tournament right before this time) So that opportunity goes out the door now for a few teams with a "state tournament" before the state tournaments.

    Lastly what is to stop a team from "BCS'n" their schedule? Load up their duals schedule with lesser teams? Gain a higher seed? Then if we look at seeding. I know it doesn't say but I'm betting to say that the teams that get seeded will be looked at as in who is most likely to have the most kids going to state or shot at state?!?! Which is the same basic way we schedule the state duals as is right?!?!

    2) I'm sure they can do that but i answered my concern above.
    3) I wouldn't host it period. The current format is fine. Have it beginning/middle of Jan on one day. Not spread out over the course of weeks and right up to the tournament time.

    I see no need for this with the current system in place...

    Yes prestigious individual tournament base teams scores on the individuals achievement. So what, why do we have to do things the way they do? I'd like my team to get to wrestle in duals where I can adjust my lineup as needed and have them pull together and cheer each other on to get a team win. (I know wrestling is an individual sport)
    Don't worry about the system getting watered down with another state title. I was under the impression that those 3 team leader boards are going away. Thats right, no more team score's at the individual state tournament's and no more team trophies that weekend.
    And can a team with 8 wrestlers win matches? yes. Why let them participate? Because they CAN win. Imagine gram getting 6 starters knocked out of the lineup due to the flu. How many teams do you think could beat them then? My guess is that less than 50% of the state could beat them in a dual with 8 wrestlers.
    As for the number of matches, we'll your coach gets to pick your schedule. You can take that up with him. OHSAA limit's the teams to 20 points, If your school schedules all 20, then your coach probably wants as much experience as he can get.
    About scheduling your duals around the state dual tournament to pad your seed... um what ever, you still have to win the duals to make it to state, no matter what your seed is. 1 team goes from each of the 8 regions, and they are seeding in the region, so if your first seed or not seeded, you only go to state with a regional title.

    one thing we can all take note to. The AD's (who should have talked to the coach) from each school voted on this. It passed with a majority vote. That means more than half the coaches wanted this. OHSAA finally does something good and they take so much heat about it. wow.
  • Con_Alma
    CoachTim;602981 wrote:... I was under the impression that those 3 team leader boards are going away. Thats right, no more team score's at the individual state tournament's and no more team trophies that weekend....
    This is my understanding also.
  • ptrsn
    Pensylvania does a satte dual tournament and awards state dual team champions and also state tournament champions for the traditional state tournament. this set up sounds exactly like they way PA does it and i don't thyink anyone can argue about the success of the wrestelrs from PA on th national and collegiate level so it only seems like it will improve wrestling in Ohio.

    only problem i see is the date for the state duals championships (feb 9, 2013) would be the traditional date for most league championship tournaments (week before sectionals). i would like to see this system start a week earlier and end a week earlier.
  • Con_Alma
    The only difference to the PA system is that the OHSAA does not plan on awarding Team Championship awards at the "traditional state tournament".

    I'm not sure they will even keep team scores.